In the Suite

12. Elevating the Client Experience and Gathering Feedback with Julie Littlechild, Founder and CEO of Absolute Engagement

July 23, 2020 Tina Powell | Julie Littlechild Season 1 Episode 12
In the Suite
12. Elevating the Client Experience and Gathering Feedback with Julie Littlechild, Founder and CEO of Absolute Engagement
Show Notes Transcript

Our guest for this episode of In the Suite, Julie Littlechild, dives into the power of listening to your clients. It’s not about hearing what they have to say, it’s about genuinely understanding feedback. It’s an absolute honor to speak with Julie as she is one of the most highly respected women in the financial services industry. Julie is the founder and CEO of Absolute Engagement. Absolute Engagement focuses on helping advisors, advisory firms, and enterprises use the voice of the client in their business. 

A business can differentiate the client experience by integrating the voice of the client to find growth opportunities. And that’s what Absolute Engagement does, they hone in on the voice of the client. They really know how to listen, absorb feedback, and then apply to the business to see real-world client change.

During my time with Julie In The Suite, we talk about how businesses can stay afloat by learning to evolve over time. She talks diving into tracking data and feedback over the course of multiple years to understand shifts in health, wellness, loyalty, and engagement. You won’t want to miss this episode!

Join the conversation to hear more about:

  • Tracing Julie’s story back and how she got her foot in the door (6.35)
  • How she became an entrepreneur (9:51)
  • How Julie’s business evolved over time (16:22)
  • Improving communication with clients in a virtual-focused world post-COVID (23:30)
  • Gauging the client confidence level and the Self Confidence Index (26:30)
  • Shifts in health, wellness, loyalty, and engagement (33:32)
  • How to get genuine feedback from your clients (37:25)
  • Ways to become more referable (41:00)
  • Opening up vulnerability Leadership is hard (46:25)
  • Opportunities open to women over 40 (48:28)
  • Knowing your why and having that discussion with yourself (52:25)
  • Julie’s mantra to let go of the pressure (56:25)

Referenced Materials:

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📧 Want to get in touch? Email me at tina@growintentionally.com


Tina Powell :

Hi, this is Tina Powell host of in the suite where I sit down with top women leaders and some of the biggest names in the financial services and the wealth management industry. Together we'll discover some of their best secrets and top strategies to grow great business build a strong brand and lead teams in the 21st century. I hope you'll enjoy hearing their amazing personal stories of triumph, trepidation and transformation in hopes of becoming better leaders ourselves. The time for you to lead is now and you're in the suite. With over 25 years of industry experience Julie little child is one of the most well known, widely respected women in financial services and the wealth management industry. You don't get a seat at Michael kitsis his financial advisor success podcasts as guest number three unless you're an expert and a qualified one at that. And for Julie she's a leading pioneer and powerhouse in the fields of client research, feedback and the client experience. Julie is founder and CEO of absolute engagement, an author of the book by the same name. Absolute engagement works with individual advisors, teams and enterprises to incorporate the voice of the client in their businesses in order to drive deeper engagement and growth. Her clients are in the US, Canada, the UK and Europe. Julie is a recognized expert on the drivers of client engagement and a popular speaker on how the client experience is being disrupted and how to leverage those trends to drive referrals. She's worked and studied successful financial advisors and their clients for a period of more than 25 years. And prior to founding absolute engagement, Julie launched and ran one of the industry's leading research firms focus on client engagement. She sat on the National Board of Financial Planning Association and was twice identified as one of the most 25 Most Influential People in financial planning by investment advisor magazine and won the influencer award and practice management from financial planning magazine. She holds an MBA from the University of Toronto. Julie's also co host of becoming referral podcasts with C version, which you can find on your favorite podcasting platform. I highly recommend you listen to their most recent episode on how client feedback has changed and to learn the strategies you need to know to better connect and one of the many gifts you'll discover about Julie is her wit and gift for communication. She's highly engaging and someone who can make you laugh and wow you with facts, data technology and a meticulous process for everything else. You can think of every woman in the We should get connected to Julie and especially to her work and understand how to make sense of today's new normal. I hope you'll enjoy this episode of Julie little child in the suite. So yes, Julie little child. It's quite an honor to have you in this suite today and I have been looking forward to this for months. Thank you for joining us for what promises to be such a fun and information packed episode. I'm really really excited to learn more about the work that you're doing your origin story, and I know that we're going to walk away with a lot of key insights here. So I feel like it's going to be really a great information packed episode. So now the world knows you okay, but for the very few people listening today in this podcast who don't know Julie little child, here's the thing that makes Julie very, very special. So she is a you're a researcher. recognized speaker, a CEO. She's an author of the pursuit of absolute engagement. She is a co host of becoming referable podcasts. Side note, my favorite episode is on brand importance with Tina Powell back on October 31 2019. But seriously, chilling little child is one of the most highly respected women in the financial services industry. She has had over 25 years of industry experience. And not only that, you do not get to be Michael kitsis, his third guest on the financial advisor success podcast, unless you are exceptional. So well, let's start here. Welcome Julie littlechild.

Julie Littlechild :

Hello, thank you. I just, you know, I love talking to you anyway, so I feel like we just turned the mic on. And then we could just have one of our usual conversations, which is great. I'm so pleased you're doing this podcast as well. Congratulations, it's great.

Tina Powell :

It was daunting. And after being a guest on a few of the other podcasts and yours included, I said to myself that I really wanted to use the platform as a way to tell the origin stories of leading women in the industry and even the stories that we don't get to hear. It's if you kind of think about it as the behind the scenes. So I found I haven't been in the industry for as long as you have like, really just half that time. And one of my questions to women is like, Wait, how did you get here? Like, who told you I always thought that if you were going to be in financial services that number one, you had to be a math major, like my daughter, um, number two, that you had to come from wealth, right, you had to have a life of privilege in order to really understand money, and even three that you had to be some sort of financial advisor or some sort of financial capacity. Have that proficiency. And so what I found was Wait, not everybody, the origin stories of the people who are most highly respect in the industry were actually quite different. And so there is no right or wrong way to get here. You just you just get here. Yeah, it's,

Julie Littlechild :

yeah, you have to have a, if you're not an advisor in our world, I think you just have to have such an appreciation for the work that advisors do. Right. And the impact this industry has and that you're right, that there's so many different roles and Who would have known years ago where that we'd both end up here, right. I think if I trace my story back, I don't know if you do. There wasn't a list that says I'm going to get into financial services and start my own business, that's for sure.

Tina Powell :

Why don't we kind of go back you've been in this industry for a long time and I'm fascinated to speak to women like you who knew that how did you see the writing on the wall to be here? It's it's an incredible industry. You get to work with such great people.

Unknown Speaker :

And you know, through your podcast through my podcast, I feel like we're changing the narrative and changing the version of what people think Financial Services is and what it means. But how did you get here? I think I'm really excited. I've never asked you as many times. As we've talked. Julie, I've never asked you that question. How did you get here?

Julie Littlechild :

Well, I always feel like I want some answer. Like, I had a dream as a child, and then it all came true. And it wasn't that wonderful. But of course, it's not that way at all. I mean, I, I think sometimes you you sort of stumble into an opportunity, and that opens up doors maybe that you didn't see. So for me, I was going down a path of kind of marketing and PR out of university and I made the decision at some point, because I was concerned about opportunities. And I thought there was a lot of real frankly, gender bias and in that particularly And PR some limiting factors there. But I saw I went back and did an MBA and then that kind of allowed me to, to decide which path to go and I, I ended up connecting with a guy who was doing some work with mutual fund companies and financial advisors, very small company, got to know him began to work with him and then literally over a period of a few years, researched Top Producing advisors developed content. And then when I outgrew that rule, I could I began to see where some of the opportunities for me were, but I stuck with the industry and loved the industry. I loved working with advisors, I just needed to go in a different different path. So I always think it was it's like emergent strategy. It just kind of evolve over time, right?

Tina Powell :

Yeah, I think that the path reveals itself when it's when it when it when it's time. One of the things that I love and that I discovered working through this industry is that financial advisors are real compassionate people. They're real and it's really about it's really relationship business. And that's what leads is that people really caring about other people in wanting to make a difference and know anytime there's money involved. People think the opposite but not in the financial planning profession. And there's a lot of different nuances in the, in the industry as well. Well, where I think if you've never been in the industry before, you know, we collectively we group the term, but there's so many different areas and different levels of expertise and even there are delineations and divisions within the industry within the industry. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, there's there's so much and, and I mean, I don't know about you, but I I didn't exactly plan to be an entrepreneur either, right? I mean, I just kind of

Julie Littlechild :

thought being in a small company was better for me, because I thought maybe I would get fired. If I was working in a large company. I'm not sure I was the best rule follower and I needed to, to have a seat at the table. But I thought I was going to be very happy as sort of, to I see in a small company. But having said that, I've realized since I started a business, there's almost like this delineation of people who couldn't do anything else but run their own business and those who think it looks really cool, but just aren't built for it. Like there's just something different. Because I've talked to so many people over the years who say, I don't think I'm going out on my own. And when you press them just a little bit, it's like they they're not. I don't know, it just doesn't seem to fit. And so I don't know what else I would have done frankly, if I hadn't started

Tina Powell :

I love it. Did you have the model for entrepreneurship in your own family? I mean, I did my my. My both my parents were both entrepreneurs and they remember Being early on, when I was in college, one interview, and the question is like, Well, what do you want to do five or 10 years? What's your? And I said, proudly, I said, Well, I want to be the owner of my own business. But Geez, I mean, it's the hardest. It's the harder.

Julie Littlechild :

Yeah, really funny. You know, I had no examples of it. So my father was a tool and die maker at General Motors. And my mom was a secretary at a university and the I couldn't even find an entrepreneur in my family if I tried. So I think I'm, you know, maybe it'll come after me. Maybe my son will. My son will take this path, but who knows?

Tina Powell :

Yeah, yeah, he's he's 10. Now

Julie Littlechild :

he's 10. Yeah.

Tina Powell :

The double digits birthday.

Julie Littlechild :

Oh, I know, big day. He said. He said, should I be taking over the family business are following my passion? Yes. I think the right answer is Follow your passion.

Tina Powell :

I just love that he's already thinking of that. So yes, part of entrepreneurial DNA in your, in your son, for sure and whether or not it sounds like you knew that you that entrepreneurship was the right path for you because you have to be willing to do a lot of different things. As it relates to having your own business and you have to dive into areas of your business that you're not necessarily comfortable at least I'll also all speak for me, right? You are a You are the everything. You are the administrator, you're the bookkeeper. You're the tax accountant and your head of sales, your head of marketing your head of r&d, product development. And when I look at absolute engagement, I want to talk a little bit about your business and what you do but Wow, man, you have an impressive back end to your business. See on the on on the front end So with with all respect, wow, I'm just amazing. So, you know, part of you sounds like you had some of the the aptitude to actually build it. But talk to us a little bit about absolute engagement and who you are and what your organization actually means.

Julie Littlechild :

Yeah, for sure. So I mean, our focus is entirely on helping advisors and advisory firms, enterprises, to use the voice of the client in their business to integrate the voice of the client and then use that input to, to define a differentiated client experience and find growth opportunities. So, you know, at our heart, we're about the voice of the client. I think that's our core expertise. But we're very much driven by what do you do with the information and that's where so we have quite a robust client feedback voice is a client component and we have an equally robust Training and Support offer to help people use the information that we gather for them.

Tina Powell :

Yeah, because you leaning into heavily into research, it's it's what you're Yeah, it's what you're known for. But let's face it just data and research is really nothing unless that you act upon that. And I didn't recognize that you until digging a little deeper into your organization that you had the mechanisms to actually help business owners researches is hard in that you could be delivered a collective body of intelligence and data, but it's knowing what to do, because there's a lot of different steps, right. Would you agree there's a lot of different configurations. If you look at the results of a survey, you might actually think that that road A is the one to take, but somebody like yourself, Julie, that you've had over 25 years of experience and you understand what resonates for the client experience, you know how to direct the client which I think is actually tremely powerful,

Julie Littlechild :

and it's it's the critical piece, right? So where we've built some really robust systems to help advisors gather feedback. And then at the same time, we have sort of large scale, digital platform learning platforms at an enterprise level and then one on one coaching. When we're working with individuals, it's it data doesn't have a lot of import if if it's not looked at in context and if it's not acted on.

Tina Powell :

So when you started your business being an entrepreneur, did you start with both components in mind or did the business evolve because because financial advisors were needing that critical piece,

Julie Littlechild :

it really did evolve. When I started the business I had developed sort of researched and developed a lot of content around building and growing a financial advisory business, and I thought that's what I was going to do, I was going to coach. And I discovered pretty quickly that I'm a terrible coach. Nobody should hire me as a coach. I have great coaches that work on my team. And, but, but what I found that was more of a personal discovery, but but what I also figured out is every time I was talking to advisors, we started with what a client's think and how we can talk about improving a business if we don't know what's important to your clients. So every time we began to reach out and gather client input, and then you know, if you looked at that over a full decade almost, we evolved that into really clear processes to gather feedback and make that the the core of what we do.

Tina Powell :

So do you notice a certain type of mindset or DNA on behalf of your clients because we talked about it From the entrepreneurs perspective, that not everybody's cut to be an entrepreneur, but I have to imagine, not everybody is willing to get client feedback.

Julie Littlechild :

No, you're absolutely right. In fact, I mean, regularly if I'm speaking I will, I'll sort of ask audiences, you know, what's the what's the number one thing that gets in the way of asking for feedback and fear is sort of the number one thing that comes up very self aware, if nothing else, you know what I mean? And so, I've yet to meet someone who says getting input from your clients is unimportant. I think we've all accepted that that's important. But there's either a fear, or there is a perfectionism, which sort of noticed these three personalities. I just don't want to know that's fear. perfectionism is let me just work on the business for a year. And then when everything is really running smoothly, then I'm going to go out and get feedback. And then there's another group that we don't talk so much about, which is really just, I don't need the feedback because I know what they need. And so we don't spend a lot of time with that group trying to convince them otherwise.

Tina Powell :

They don't listen to this. They're not in the sweet. So have you ever had to coach or your coaches being We, of course, we know you're not coaching? Exactly. But have you ever had a case where there is actually where your coaches have had to coach leaders on the fact that they need to be a little bit more receptive and more willing to solicit feedback from their clients because it leads to growth and it leads to great engagement and sticky clients?

Julie Littlechild :

Absolutely. I mean, I think a lot of them, don't ask, you know, how do I gather feedback they're interested in why and that's where I think a lot of our research comes into play as well. Because we can point to some evidence, it says, A that engaged clients want to be asked what's on their mind, we can point to trends like co creation of value, that show us that the future of experience is about more of a partnership with clients. But we do, we do have to get past the idea that that we know what our clients want and need and that we don't we just need to focus on delivering that instead of just asking what's most important. And, and I would, you know, I would say that if we haven't learned that lesson in the first half of 2020, we probably never will, because never has there been a time when pausing and talking to clients about how they're really feeling has been more important than Yeah, I mean, it's been critical.

Tina Powell :

Yeah, and I have to say what I noticed is a lot of people were some offices were backpedaling into that because They didn't necessarily have even the communications infrastructure to handle the to even address their clients head on like, yes. And when I say that, of course, I mean, that kind of tongue in cheek that yes, there's always the calling mechanism. But then what happens is that a lot of us went on to zoom because the client experience is about sharing information. And so if it's a regular phone call, then you can't see your account. You can't see your documents, you can't see your statements. And those are the very things that clients ask about, especially in a pandemic world. So you know, what happened to your business what happened Did you notice in the advisory profession when the world's hit halted completely because of COVID

Julie Littlechild :

the you know, there been these two phases and I think we've all maybe three experienced it in different ways. One was, you know, panic. Yeah, but I you know, I it full transparent See, I have never experienced a faster and more complete grinding to the halt of a business as we did in the first part of this year. And that was due in large part because there were other things that became more important. And I had to look pretty deep as well and say, what I honestly recommend that someone go out and gather feedback, you know, it's April 1, should should you send a survey to your client? And it's not an easy thing to come out and say, No, you should hold tight on this. Even though this is the basis of all of our revenue in the business. I believed it to be true. Now the fact is that things then began to evolve. We looked at what's changing what this meant long term in terms of client feedback, how it needed to be different. We began to develop tools and strategies and questions and built off some research that we did in March as well. And then over time, it just became part of the conversation again, people opened up as we all did, and we were ready to say you should gather feedback, but things have changed. And it's a little different and we've learned a thing or two, so let's do it differently.

Tina Powell :

So how have great advisors been, you know, handling the opportunity to do business different than normal? Knowing that having the value of your lens and saying no, don't, don't ask them for client feedback, but yet be in touch with their clients. So are you like literally coaching clients to tell them what to say and and how to say it Because one of the fog has lifted, obviously, I mean, it is June, it's June 12. But it's not too far time, like three or four weeks ago was not that far away. And nobody wants to be wrong advisors especially everyone wants to be right. We are in a business of making people feel to do the right thing and to accomplish goals that are very quantitative driven.

Julie Littlechild :

So I would say that in the shorter term as in as we went into April, what we were recommending is that it's still important to reach out, it's still important to connect and to support your clients. Rather than sending a full survey, why not reach out to understand how they're feeling and where they need help, to use that to communicate and support more effectively. So and and then as we continued from there. Increasingly, we got back to broader based feedback to the point where now we're doing, you know, our normal business but, but what has still changed is I think of it as it's almost like we flip the switch a little from instead of focusing entirely on, you know, how am I doing? How am I doing as an advisor and delivering service? We're focused on how are you doing as the client, we developed an entire Self Confidence Index based on the research that we did across the country, so that it gave advisors a different view into the level of concern or vulnerability of clients, to allow them to have more engaging conversations. I don't know if you find this but I find our languages changing and the more we are connecting with one another. There's it's a little less formal, it's a little more authentic. It's there's a bit of a tone change in what we're asking. And so even the way we position feedback and invite feedback, we've looked at the words, questions have changed, you know, we want to understand, how do you feel about the future of experience? I mean, do you want to keep on with zoom? Do you want to go back to face to face? Are there different topics that are really of interest to you right now? And so so all of that has informed our business and probably will, you know, continue to inform our business things are just a little different.

Tina Powell :

Yeah, I think that this whole pandemic is basically a crash course, on our business evolving overnight, to meet the needs of the client. You just said something very interesting about the confidence score, and I want to pick up on that. Is that something that that client that Confidence Index is that me as the advisor confidence in myself in being able to, I guess, say the right things do the right things? Or is it the clients is the gauge the client confidence saying, Hey, I'm not feeling too great right now. And so rather than you having a discussion about my portfolio or my planning or how I rate your service, you need to deal with me first and some of my issues as an individual.

Julie Littlechild :

It's, it's it's largely the latter. So we came across it in a way through the industry research, I think, you know, when we think about confidence, often we're asking about confidence in the markets or, you know, confidence in your plan. When we broke it down, there were a few questions that were really starting to inform the results. And it was things like the extent to which clients felt financially secure the extent to which they felt in control of their own reaching their goals. confident in their ability to reach their goals? And did they have a clear plan. And so as we looked at that we thought, this isn't confidence in anything external. It's more about confidence in your own ability and and your sense of control. So that's why we kept calling it self confidence. And and I thought the good news about that was that advisors can do something about that, right? There's not much they can do about the markets, but they can help clients to feel more confident about their their future. And, you know, we created this index on those four questions. And it was really striking that when you when you cut clients into sort of a low self confidence, moderate and high, the impact was so dramatic on the business in terms of things like satisfaction levels and net promoter score. So it told us that just by increasing self confidence a little bit Bit closing the gap between say moderate and highly self confident. It was an extraordinary impact not just for clients, but for the business as a whole. And so I thought, Okay, this is it's like a new form of risk, I think low self confidence because it's connected to loyalty and net promoter and satisfaction and all of those metrics that we look at.

Tina Powell :

Do you did you notice, like trends in the aggregate? Like, I think that that would be really fascinating to see that during certain weeks, you can always almost see like, you had just mentioned something that was pretty austrac thing. And that is that a little bit of improvement in a client's confidence level has delivered a major improvement to the practice and the relationship. So how did how are advisors closing that gap? How do you close that gap? What do you say to clients and what you do, so that you help to make it a better client experience. And the clients know that you, you know, you fundamentally care. I mean, advisors fundamentally care about their clients anyway. But in sometimes with pandemics like this, I myself felt paralyzed at one time, like, Yeah, what to say and what to do and what's the right way to reach out and being. And now we had a, we had a pandemic, we had a health crisis that led to an economic crisis that is now a racial divide that a society cry in crisis right now. Yes. So how do you close the gap when all of those things are going on around you? I know

Julie Littlechild :

it's, it's incredible, right? I often think about how we're going to look back at this time in history, and we'll realize how strong we all are to get to get through it, but you know, in how to deal with it. I think that you can look broadly at the data source The trends and you can also look at it one on one. So for example, if an advisor gathers feedback and they discover that a client and individual client has a low index score, the client may never have mentioned that, like they don't identify in that manner. But what it does mean is the advisor needs to hit pause, to not focus on the reassurance and where we're going with the plan. But just to take the time to dig in to give a client the ability to examine that feeling for themselves, to label it and to deal with whatever's going on in their life so that they can actually hear the advice that they need to give. So I think it changes the kinds of conversations that advisors have.

Unknown Speaker :

At a broader

Julie Littlechild :

level, we were able to identify sort of six different categories 14 different statements that were correlated with high confidence So you know, some of it related to things you might expect, like a focus on planning, understanding life goals, that kind of thing. It was also connected to the quality of the review process. And so it wasn't just my advisor meets me often enough it was I feel energized and inspired when I meet with my advisor, it was a connection to non financial as well as financial issues. So there, you know, we've got this list of statements, but you can you can sort of see these as levers that you can pull to try to close the gap to some extent.

Tina Powell :

Well, I think that that leads right into some of the research that I saw that you publish, that was the the research that you did with the investments and wealth Institute, whereas you surveyed 1200 investors from a period of March 10 to march 24. Again, you know, a key time during this pandemic and that The the answers to what you would learn that it's very much a conversation, empowering the client means that you're not only talking about conversations about their money, but you're talking about other things. And so I so when I saw these results, I said, Wow, these should almost be subject matters that are built into like, a financial planning tool, for example, that even though it's it is financial planning. But talking about second careers, might not be in your financial planning software, but maybe it should. I mean, can you talk to us and tell us a little bit about some of the insights that were gleaned as a result of that research? I found it personally fascinating.

Julie Littlechild :

Yeah. So one of the things that we looked at was, which topics are you interested in learning more about Now, again, we were in fields from March 10 to 24th. But of course, research works well in advance of the day. field. So we had absolutely no idea what was about to happen when we hit go on this study, I probably would have added some different questions and given half a chance to go back in time, but

Tina Powell :

right great timing, timing the market.

Julie Littlechild :

Absolutely. Right. We know, obviously, look, I've been doing this study since 2008, shape or form. Although interestingly, the first time we did it was 2008, and then 2010. So we bookended another interesting time in history that informed a lot of our thinking about what engagement really is, but we could see differences when so if someone responded on March 10, or 11th, versus the 16th to the 24th. three segments, there were certain areas that we could see shifting loyalty was one of them. I think it was getting worse as we got deeper when it came to The topics they were interested in, you know, some of the top things chosen were fairly common around maintaining sufficient assets and that sort of thing. But the biggest shift between the 10th and the 26th was health and wellness. Right. And in fact, we just released another report through the investments in wealth Institute where we segmented on the basis of wealth, and health and wellness as well as I think charitable giving for the high net worth clients was even more extreme. So yeah, health and wellness, thinking about second careers caring for aging parents, helping the kids make better financial decisions, you know, legacy, volunteerism, all of these represented shifts just in that two week period. So you can see how quickly our mindset starts to change, right when we during a period like this, and we got to know most things about our clients, right. So that's like, to your point, I mean, these are the questions. We need to Ask as part of client feedback so that we can support clients differently.

Tina Powell :

And how often should we be asking for that feedback?

Julie Littlechild :

Well, you know, generally did we do all sorts of different types of feedback, qualitative, quantitative polls, you know, issues specific. But for broad based feedback, we normally do it every 18 to 24 months, I would argue, and I have not have not experimented with this yet that for those that have been gathering feedback over the last little while, particularly on these things, like what are they interested in learning more about? Or where are they challenged, might want to do some quick, almost pulse updates in the head just to stay on top of how things are changing?

Tina Powell :

And do I need to have a formal mechanism again, if there's a way to ease into feedback and Lateran for feedback? Is there just a one or two simple questions that you can give us that we can just maybe even put an email form or I don't know if there's Some baseline resources that you have at absolute engagement that can just help us get out of the weeds. I've never really thought about the benefits of client feedback. And I'm not just saying that I really truly mean that I'm thinking like, wow, this is absolute engagement work with digital agencies, because it really is important now. I'm guilty of the fact that I don't ask my clients. I might like, obviously, when I check in, okay, are you doing how's everybody? So yes, but my personal experience with feedback is that when you send somebody a survey, or that you do it, when you take yourself out of the equation, then that all of a sudden, where there's critical learning opportunities, and they'll write something or say something that they wouldn't have said, if you had asked them in a discussion or email, you can really uncover a lot of gems.

Julie Littlechild :

And the right so like, I mean, there's the element of being a third party. Which kind of elicit some, some honesty and it's not negative, but always is sometimes it's just opportunities. The other thing is it's just not robust. I mean, if you ask one or two clients, you're not getting a statistically significant sample across all of your clients. So if you're trying to make decisions on on changes in, you know, I think it becomes really, really important to do that formally. But, you know, so I think informal feedback is kind of that first step. It's not robust and significant and quantitative, but just having one or two questions along the lines of, you know, is there anything else we can do to support you? Or, you know, how are you feeling about the relationship so far? That kind of thing is a start in the right direction, then then it becomes more about just trying to get down to one or two questions. These days. I would say the questions have to do with how confident Clients are feeling and what they're interested in because that can inform a communication strategy. So if you wanted to isolate just a couple of things that are important, I would say that and you know, we The only caveat, I think is to fight the urge to use feedback as a way to ask clients what you should do as in questions like, what else could I provide? to deliver great service, right, which is comes up all the time. clients don't know, it's not their job to know. You'll be highly disappointed with the results. I think our job with feedback is to understand what clients are thinking and feeling where they're challenged, what their aspirations are, and then use that to inform the experience, not to ask them what the experience should be.

Tina Powell :

Wow, wow, that's really deep. I think one of the things that I've also taken from the whole client experience you have an incredible module on that, by the way, is not only that, that you should try to create a systematic client experience, you can actually build a client experience that perhaps that is inspired by your own experience outside of the vertical that Yeah, not all experiences. I think that's what I'm really finding. That's what I'm really inspired by is saying, wait, it doesn't have to be there's no playbook to follow. But your playbook, whatever it is, should be evolving, that you set the bar higher. I love what you just said that it's really not up to the client to tell you what to do as far as your client, as far as your client experience, don't don't ask them I guess try new things. The best way is to offer new services. Are you What do you find is one of the most common action steps that if I've gone through some form of formal client Feedback surveying of my clients. Is there a common thread that it all comes back to that? Oh, yeah, we're not doing 80% of this. And, and we should be.

Julie Littlechild :

The first part of that is hard to do, because we always tailor surveys based on the objectives. So the objectives changed from one advisor to the next. If they come in and say, I want to have the best possible client communications plan, then we're going to tailor our questions around what clients value, how they want to receive information, the kinds of topics that they care about, you know, all of those things. And that's going to be the big finding. You know, I would say overall, you know, clients are satisfied I, you know, I'm always saying, look, if you're just trying to assess satisfaction, save yourself the money. You don't have to do a formal feedback for that. But particularly now really going deep on you know, whether it's the kind of content that will resonate digital social media. Some of these aspects of the experience that I think advisors need to be asking about so that they are evolving their client experience. It's not just how are we doing, but it's where were we going? And we need to ask more questions around that. You know, at a very granular level, though, I would say that the, you know, often the biggest return, because we you know, we look at it in terms of return as well as is things like uncovering either cross selling opportunities or referral opportunities among clients just by asking certain questions I tend tends to be the eye opener.

Tina Powell :

Hmm. I know. And actually, you have a podcast that's, that's named after that becoming referral with Steve wirsching. Yeah. The client driven practice. Yeah. How did you come together? I mean, the concept of being more referral is also choose something that we want, it lends itself well to the client experience and everyone wants to do better and be better. But how did you both come together? Because you're in Toronto? Yeah. And he's in Rochester. And this is a podcast that you've had now for years. So this isn't anything, anything new. I think that maybe this kind of collaboration are the very types of things that we should model after more women into financial services to get more women who are as well,

Julie Littlechild :

too. I think there's so much room for more podcasting, and I in particular, I love some of what you're doing because it's it, you know, we're kind of targeting how people are feeling and what they're experiencing and as you said, kind of at the outset, having different conversations. I mean, Steve and I have known each other for a lot of years might consider him a friend and that's, for me, the most important thing because I only like to work with people I like. But we we also had a very complimentary focus right. He He focused on referrals. He does advisory boards. So our body of work connected, but we knew what swim lane we were in. So it's not it's non competitive in that sense. So I think it was his idea. I think he just said, Why don't we do this? And then three years later or something, we looked around and something. And we'd been doing it every other

Tina Powell :

week. I'd love it. It's, it's great. You've got a lot of great guests and a lot of great. Where do people find the podcast has its own landing page and website?

Julie Littlechild :

Yeah, does it becoming referral calm for the

Tina Powell :

really super easy URL to remember. I do think like this was an important time to have you on because there's an opportunity with every type of crisis to either show up the right way and to make a meaningful difference. And to reevaluate yourself and how you're doing and yes, I'm even doing a better job, I think, making sure that more voices are heard and bringing a little bit more diversity and inclusion to our stories here and to broadening that in a way that I think is very much necessary for for today

Julie Littlechild :

it is in the you know, just this time, right where I am and here's where I, I have to imagine that men and women have had some different experiences some similar but I mean, I'm having more deeper conversations with women about what this has been like this we're trying to run a business and run a family and not feel guilty all the time and feeling scared and watching business go out the door and, and just the fact that people are opening up and it's it's not one giant, you know, things are Fine, things are wonderful. They're not they haven't been fine or wonderful, they've been dreadful. And just we just kind of have these conversations.

Tina Powell :

I like giving it an authenticity to it too. And saying that everything is not okay even just by saying like, everything's not okay. And I'm not okay. Or are they really one of the quotes that I love that inspired me reading? Before we can ask how can we lead clients, we need to ask ourselves if we are ready to lead. That's the core thing, right? Where I feel like that's the opportunity right now, if you're listening to this podcast, is I want to and I'm doing it for for myself too. We're having these discussions because there is a different way to show up and to lead right now that's different, fundamentally different than it was a month ago or even two months ago. And so hopefully what you do is a result of listening today to Julie and to myself is that you add some sort of action step because it goes back to the premise of your whole body of work here, you have insights, you have data, you understand how people are feeling, but if you actually leave it on the table, then it's done absolutely nothing but just sit there on the table, like a potted plant.

Julie Littlechild :

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, these are the tough questions. Right. And, and I think I said that because I just experienced it and and I knew it, it took some time to show you know, leadership is hard, right? It's and if you're feeling it all weekend, it's okay. I mean, vulnerable leadership goes a long way. But boy, it's keeping that strength up. Same, you know, whether it's as a parent or as a business owner or manager of team, it's, it's tough. And I guess we've we've all given ourselves a little break to deal with that and I think it's been powerful. Full and a way to connect at a very in a very different way. And I hope this extends to I hope this kind of vulnerability extends to these conversations about race. And, you know, all of the conversations we're having now as well.

Tina Powell :

Oh, I think it's so it's very much needed. And unfortunately, it's come back to the same thing that well, it took a crisis to get here, but it's like a crisis to get here. And that's the silver lining of where we are today. And part of this part of the goal or the why of this podcast is to get more women into financial services, particularly women who are over 40 because I have a I've had a hard time find women who are over 40 in positions in financial services, other than Yes, the client, the front facing financial advisor world, but because I we are both in that cohort being over 40 and being in an industry that we love. Where do you think are the best opportunities for women? Because you've had the ability to work with lots of different organizations, not only financial advisors, but you've been able to partner with media, you've been able to partner with leading institutions. So from your vantage point, where do you think that there are opportunities for women over 40 that are not necessarily like known to people that could be beneficial or even another step in the in the career ladder?

Julie Littlechild :

It's it's such an interesting question. I, my big shifts came at 50. I think that's when some of the most significant decisions and changes kind of smacked me over the head. The easy response might be, if you looked at people who support this industry, you may you know, I can I can name a lot of senior women who run businesses who support the industry. So clearly that's an opportunity. I mean, clearly, there is a lot of that. But that's not the traditional route. You know. So increasingly, I'm seeing women take on more senior senior positions. And I'm also seeing women just walk away where they can see the profit, like not trying to make this their personal goal to fight the fight within a small company that's never going to change. And just saying, they're, they're big firms. And, you know, I just I find it almost hard to believe we have trouble finding opportunities. Because I'm seeing more and more of it, we're at a head office level. I mean, the percentage of advisors that are female is still appallingly low. When I think about the broker dealers and the custodians and the wire houses, and I know the first too much better, I'm seeing a lot of women and senior seniors Your roles. So you know, maybe just finding those opportunities is the best way to go. You know, I don't know it's i've i've always struggled with this, how do you attract women? How do you, you know, focus on them? It's a it's a, it's a tough, I don't know, maybe you've cracked the code. Can you tell me?

Tina Powell :

So here's one of the things that I've learned as a result of, of this podcast, and that is that successful women like yourself, have always encountered a challenge or you've hit a roadblock or something that maybe questioned someone's personal decision to remain in the industry. However, if you stick with it, it goes back to resilience. It goes back to Angela Duckworth, the word, grit and resilience. It is just saying that if you and Simon sine x, y, if you can, why We're here, if you're driven by, by that, why, then we'll stick with something as hard as it gets as many people who want to throw rocks and boulders in your way as many brick walls that you are going to face on. It won't matter because you're driven by a higher purpose. Yeah, that's what I found is the connective tissue with every single woman on this podcast that she has had, she's encountered some sort of challenge, but she's looked that challenge right in the eye, and she's tackled it with the help of other people, not by herself, but with people that have believed in her with mentors, with sponsors, with advocates with other female leaders. And that's what I want this discussion to be somebody who's listening right now, and I want if that's you right now, I want you to stick with it. I want you to be resilient, and I want you to call us and ask whoever is in that inner circle of health, wealth and health, right health is a big part of the equation as well. Yeah. for help when you need it, because there's plenty of people, we just don't ask for it. I'm guilty of not asking for it enough.

Julie Littlechild :

Absolutely. And it's Yeah, I mean, there's so many women who are here to raise everybody up, including including women. So you're right. I think that that whole idea of knowing your why, you know, there are times where I've talked to women, and maybe it's age, where they feel like they're running into brick walls, and they feel dissatisfied. But that's because sometimes they're just on a path that they thought they were supposed to be on. And like I said, For me it was when I when I turned 50 and I just had to have a very hard discussion with myself. So what do I want this to look like? Going forward, and from then on, it's just you just go but if you if that if there's a lack of alignment I guess between what's really what you want to do and what you're doing, you'll get some of that frictional just come from in turn inside yourself. Nevermind the rest of the world.

Tina Powell :

Yeah, exactly. And I can attest, one of the most glorious things about being over 50 is that you really, really understand yourself and why you're doing certain things and you are, you're aligned in a way that is totally different from any other decade. You can ever everything. And unless it is completely in love your word aligned to who you are, what you do what you stand for what you believe you won't do it. Yeah. But if you know that, again, there are enough people, there's enough one, there are plenty of opportunities COVID or not, I understand that unemployment rate is high, and all of those things but I am telling you that this is a people to people, business and people to people discussion. And the more people that you reach out to the more networking events that you attend, even whether or not it's zoom, forget about zoom 50 get on a zoom. I have unbelievable conversations in the last few weeks that are related to race relations and appreciation and expansion of just our understanding of each other. There's no such thing right now assume fatigue, get out and meet people.

Julie Littlechild :

Yeah, I've never fully understood that I get being in meetings is tiring. But I've gotten more out of this than I can then I can say over the last last couple months.

Tina Powell :

There's one question that I love to ask. And I have found again that connective tissue not much of a researcher Julie you are doing so there is A lot of us when we have to dig deep and there are situations that we have to dig deep again, it goes back to that whole resilience and grit factor. You know, you have something that you either a physical object that you wear that you carry you know I'm looking at somebody that's been in the industry for a while you're clearly you're Salish, you know, you have this incredible career and organization. And I don't know Do you ever have to dig deep and if you do, is there some sort of physical object that you that you have that gives you or even a belief that gives you that superpower boost in other people?

Julie Littlechild :

Well, it's not physical it's funny to hear you even talk about those things because as you know, if you were inside my head, that those are none of the words I would use to describe myself. So it's, it's an effort every time to put yourself out there in a in a big way, particularly if you're if you have any issues with self confidence. Or shyness or that. So it's a push for me there's not a physical object, but but there's definitely a grounding with with family. So I mean, I can get a picture of my son's face in my head and figure out this is why I'm doing it. The other time, I think I have to often dig deep is with speaking, which is ironic, because I do a lot of it. And I think the thing that flipped was, again, a thought, mantra, if you will, which is I'm not here to tell people what to do. I'm just sharing what I've learned. It's a conversation. I'm just here to help, you know, so there's certain things where it kind of allows you to let go of the pressure of who you're supposed to be, and focus on what's important. And if they don't like it, nothing I can do. So those are a couple of the thoughts that come to mind for me regularly.

Tina Powell :

Yeah, that's really really great advice. I I can't Imagine you ever having like a sense of doubt or refreshing that that type of vulnerability in that conversation right now. That Oh, you mean that's, that's perfectly normal? You mean like I might feel like that even 10 years from now, five years from now that that is a normal part of being of just being a female in a great industry and trying to show up as a leader. So thank you for that. Because that is that's an eye opening piece of piece of advice for all of our listeners today. And you have been a great guest. And we have learned a lot about feedback from our discussion today. Where is the best place for people to reach you absolute engagement. We didn't even talk about your book. Oh, we have to just spend minutes. Right? That when I think about a book, I'm like, oh, boy, trepidation there. That's not free. Tina was it to write a write that write the book? When did the decision? Are you planning on writing another book?

Julie Littlechild :

Yes. Is the answer to the last question what the next book will be? Look, there's the whole content piece of books. And then there's the writing. And I know people struggle with different like, I'm kind of, you know, if you look, we'll have certain skills, I feel like writing is not difficult for me.

Tina Powell :

That's obvious.

Julie Littlechild :

That's kind of where a natural thing is for me. But it took me many years to get to the point of knowing how I wanted to bring things together in a book. And so you know, you would argue that it was years in the making, because all of the modeling all of the you know, what I talked about client experience and such was, I mean, that was years of figuring that out. The trigger though was very personal is what we were talking about before and it was when I turned 50, and decided I needed to To me, it was like personal therapy basically is what it was. And and so that became the, the connector, which was personal vision, which was what I was going through, and I thought I was going to pull it all together. Once I actually made that decision, it was probably three to four months of solid work. Not full time work, but solid work. But I was blogging I was doing, you know,

Tina Powell :

yeah, you didn't, you didn't miss a beat and I was

Julie Littlechild :

fresh. I could, you know, you could, one of the easiest ways to write books, I think, is to write a lot of blog posts, and then you just pull them together almost into a book. So that's that I did that to some extent, not completely, but it made it a lot easier.

Tina Powell :

So I do want to say the book is the pursuit of absolute engagement. It is available on Amazon and one of the things you'll be happy to know it is available on the Kindle version as well. Yeah, so you can write when we go back to traveling and so that's great. I'm gonna I have your first book. So it's great to The second book and maybe I won't be reading your books, right? But when I turned 50, I actually started the consultancy that was to go right? to really have that, you know, what are you going to do different in your life? And how are you going to show up and lead differently. And so it's been wonderful to talk to you again, you're a female leader, you're your friend, and you're somebody very near and dear to me, but also to to the women who are and the men who are listening to this podcast right now. So thank you very much for all your wisdom today. We look forward to the second book, and then people find you how, again,

Julie Littlechild :

absoluteengagement.com the blog is there you can link to anything that we share from there.

Tina Powell :

Okay, great. And Julie has a lot of great resources and we'll be sharing some of the resources as well to today. So thank you very much for listening. Have a great, great day. You're listening to in the Sweet, a podcast that shares amazing stories of women in business in the financial services in the wealth management industry. This podcast is sponsored by C suite social media, a digital marketing and social media agency for C suite leaders in finance and technology. You can visit C suite social media comm to learn more and four copies of today's show notes from today's broadcast. And thank you so much for listening and subscribing and helping to support this podcast with your reviews. I would love it and it would mean so much if you left us a five star review for this episode with the amazing Julie little child. And always if you would like to share the name of a successful woman in financial services we should interview please send it to me at Tina at C suite social media comm we have received a lot of great names so far and we are working behind the scenes to make it all possible. Just wait till you see what's in store soon. Again, thank you so much for listening and subscribing to in the sweet