In the Suite

EP 88 The Power of Instinct: Lazard Family Office Partners' Casey Whalen’s Journey Through Finance and Mentorship

• Tina Powell | Intention.ly • Season 3 • Episode 88

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Today, we’re honored to have the extraordinary Casey Whalen in the suite—Managing Director, Head, and Chief Investment Officer at Lazard Family Office Partners, a global powerhouse in financial advisory and asset management. Lazard’s influence spans continents, from the Americas to Europe, the Middle East, Asia, and beyond.

In this episode, we dive deep into themes of resilience, risk-taking, and seizing pivotal opportunities. Casey’s story is about mentorship, grit, and knowing when to act. One of her defining moments? Her mentorship under the legendary David Swensen, Yale’s Chief Investment Officer. Fresh out of Yale with a degree in economics, Casey was already making waves at the university’s endowment, cutting her teeth across various asset classes. This set the stage for her impressive rise.

Her journey took her to Brookdale Realty in Atlanta, then back to the Northeast, where she joined The Rockefeller University as Director of Public Investments. 

At just 30, Casey became the New York Public Library’s first-ever Chief Investment Officer, building an investment office from scratch and implementing groundbreaking processes to manage its endowment. Her career is a testament to bold leadership and innovation.

But this isn’t just a career highlight reel. Casey opens up about the personal challenges she’s faced, the importance of mentorship, and how macroeconomic trends are shaping the future of investments. We also explore why gender balance in firms is a competitive edge and how diverse teams drive innovation.

Packed with raw insights and invaluable lessons, this episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to lead, break barriers, and thrive In The Suite.

🔗 Links

Casey Whalen on LinkedIn 

Lazard Famil Office Partners Website 

Casey’s Book Recommendation No Rules Rules on Amazon 



🤩 Thanks for listening, we appreciate your support and 5-star reviews of our show!!!

❤️ Please follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/inthesuitepod/

📧 Want to get in touch? Email me at tina@growintentionally.com


Casey Whalen. Wow. Take a seat in the suite. How are you doing today? I'm great. It's Friday, and I'm really happy to be here. This is really exciting. Oh, I'm so, so excited. Thank you so much for visiting with me today in the suite. And, yes, it's a fri. Yay in July. This episode will be out sometime next month, so we hope everybody's having a great summer. I mean, I'm totally honored and excited to have you here. You've got a fascinating background in investments. You are an absolute shero. Crushing it. CFA charter holder from the CFA institute, graduated from Yale with a degree in economics, managing director, head, and chief investment officer at Lazard family office partners with total assets under management. I feel like there should be a drum roll here.$210.5 billion. And that's just as of. That's just as of today. So, really, let's get right into it. Right? And we were talking a little bit before the broadcast, Casey. I'm really fascinated by women who make a strong bet on themselves, like, early in their career. I wish that I could rewind the tape, go back to undergrad, minor in finance. But I didn't have the confidence to be like, okay, um, you know, I thought that I wasn't great in numbers. My statistics class was probably my worst class on earth. But, you know, here you are. You. You land at Yale, and then you get to work under the tutelage of David Swensen. I'm just fascinated. Like, if that isn't the luck of the draw, I don't know what is. Yes, luck is for sure, and I'm honored to be here. So thank you. I love what you're doing with the podcast, so I feel really honored to be part of it. So thanks. Yeah, no, I mean, luck is the right word, I think I always, you know, I have an eleven and a 13 year old, and I always tell them, life is about kind of working really hard to put yourself in situations that you hope you get lucky, lucky in, and then got an opportunity, but you have to work hard to get there. So, you know, I knew, actually, I was good at numbers, and I loved being at Yale. I was an economics major. It is liberal arts. So we really. And I always say that the students now are much more sophisticated than we were. Like, I barely knew the difference between a stock and a pot, but was very lucky senior year to take a senior seminar with David Swenson. And so there was about, I think it was 13 or 14 of us, and he would bring in money managers. Hed bring in equity managers and emerging market managers and private equity gps and talk to us about investing. And afterwards, he would often invite us with the manager to go have pizza and beer. And I joke around. There was for some reason, only three or four of us would go. I think we all had the least amount of money and so were like three meals, lets go. But over that period was also the time when I was, like, applying for jobs. And at the time, I was dating somebody that was already actually at Goldman, a year ahead of me. And so at Yale, actually, they really pushed you into kind of two career paths. One was banking and one was consulting and having not, you know, I didn't grow up in that world, so I really wasn't educated about what other things were out there. I just knew I was good at math. I liked the idea of finance. And increasingly I was going on the interviews. I found them just kind of not fulfilling, for lack of a better word. And I would talk to David about it at these sessions, and I would say to him, they keep asking me if I can handle the hours. And I grew up competitively swimming. And I found the question kind of silly because I was like, well, I used to do doubles. I would get up at 430 in the morning for practice. I did very well academically, worked really hard my whole life. And so the idea that I couldn't handle the hours of a job seemed like not that big of a feat, I guess. And the rest of it I just didn't find as compelling. And honestly, you know, as a woman, I just didn't see myself there. And David, you know, I actually did not apply for the job originally. He actually came to me. I think it was before we were on spring break. This is when you took jobs? A lot later. And he ran into me and they actually had someone who had taken the job. They usually hired, like, one person a year. Back then, the office was small, it was like twelve of us. And he said, casey, like, we had this guy who said yes. And then he actually, ironically, took a job, turned them down afterwards for Arthur Andersen, a name that nobody knows anymore, but back then was a big name. And he said, why don't you apply for the job? And I was like, okay, I guess I'll pay for the job. I mean, do I really want to stay in New Haven? And so anyway, I applied for the job, and then we talked about it, and David's very persuasive, and I stayed in New Haven and I took the job and, oh, my gosh like, luck is just. I fell into something that I just had no idea on so many levels how both amazing and formative it would be for the rest of my career. And one of the biggest things I didn't appreciate at the time, but I tell a lot of younger people now, is just, you know, having a mentor and someone who wants to actually, like, educate you and mentor you. And, you know, our business at heart is an apprenticeship, and to have somebody who did that for so many people, but I'm by no means unique in that, in those, you know, that relationship, because he mentored so many people just really was just amazingly lucky to be able to land there. Yeah. And, of course, did he manage the famous Yale endowment? He had a long, long run up until his death in 2021, which was very, very unfortunate from the age of 35. And so one of the things, as I was reading and researching your background and both David's, is that he came up with the Yale model. And again, those of us that were a business major but not necessarily in finance, were studying, like, you know, consumer behavior. So. But, you know, always the. The endowment has been legendary, so I thought it would be really cool to. And this podcast is about, you know, depositing knowledge, you know, the things that Casey, that you picked up in your experience, and this idea of even the Yale model, which, you know, and I hope that other women are listening to this podcast. We do. We're in. Wow. The stats are phenomenal. We know that we're. We even have an international base. So I talk a lot about that slight edge principle about making a decision earlier in your career and even mid year and even senior career. How about one bet that one person, that one moment can change the entire trajectory of your life? So here you get to work under David, go out for pizza and beer, you know, like. Yes. And get to get to be introduced for the Yale model, which he was. I believe he. He won numerous awards for. Yes. Yeah, he's amazing. Yeah. Talk about, what is that? What is that Yale. What is that model? Yeah. And I think we were in the early days of it, kind of when I was there. He had, you know, started there in the. In the eighties, but I was there kind of in the mid nineties. And, you know, a lot of it, David was really grounded. It's funny because he got his PhD at Yale, so he was also, in addition to being an amazing investor, he was really an academic. And, like, a lot of what I think about now, as I get older, you get older and you start reflecting on kind of all the ways that he's impacted my life, which are profound. And he, you know, both not only professionally, but personally, helped me through all like, major transitions in my life. So, like, I really, I even get upset about, I really miss him and I'm just so grateful that I was able to have a relationship with him. But he, you know, the first thing I would say is that he was really grounded in, I would use the term, like, intellectual honesty. I mean, everything that he did had, and also frameworks. So as I get older, I notice that, like, a lot of the investments that we do is like, you know, you often have things you can't control, whether it's in a crisis or everything else. And then there's always things you can control. And I think he was really big about creating like, frameworks and intellectual honesty. For example, with asset allocation, he said to himself, everybody has stock bond portfolios, but there's all these other investments that are more inefficient, that are super interesting and are equity like. And I feel like we don't have to have as much as in fixed income because equities over time earn more. But in order for the university to survive the volatility of that kind of equity return and equity volatility over time, there are these other asset classes like absolute return and private equity and real assets where we can earn the same, if not higher returns, but kind of increased diversification and lower volatility. And so that was like pretty pro, I mean, today it's not a big deal, but back then that was very profound. And so he took areas, ironically, that a lot of families were investing in, like the absolute return strategies or private equity or non us investments. And he really brought them into an institutional framework. And he used to say, you know, you, you have to do like uninstitutional things to earn returns. And I would say, like, you do uninstitutional things but with an institutional rigor around them. So he wasn't, you know, and he was very grounded in being a fiduciary. That was like very important to him. You know, the team was always in New Haven. He would not, he got calls all the time to have an office in New York. I actually asked him to open office in London because I was doing a lot of foreign. No way. The office will always stay in New Haven. I think part of it was his obligation and feeling of ownership over what he was doing for the university. But I think that framework investing was really important. And then what he did was, he said, and the Yale model was not about everybody having the same asset allocation. It was about looking at your own institution, saying, what are the attributes of our institution? For example, Yale had a larger endowment than most of the time and still today. And so Yale had many levers for liquidity. Therefore, they don't have to have as much in fixed income and cash. Now, when I worked at, like, Rockefeller University or the library, that wasn't the same. Right? Like, we had higher levels of those areas because the mix of the revenue and the budget and expenses and everything else was different. So I think it was like focusing on what you're solving for, creating a framework for it, being willing to not be like everybody else. But it wasn't being contrarian for contrarian sake, to be, like, outrageous. It was because it was grounded in that intellectual honesty of what he was seeing and what he thought would be actually an improvement from an investment standpoint. Yeah. From my consensus on reading that was that I could see how it was pivotal that he's laddering in different asset classes and taking a contrarian view to liquidity, you know, based on the overall macro picture, which, yes, was pivotal at a time. And then I want to pick up something that you said, too, about New York public library. I did my graduate work at NYU. I love, love, love. New York Public Library is one of the most profound, is one of the most wonderful institutions there. Even if you're visiting, if anybody's here listening to New York, you really need to get there. It's right near Bryant park. There are different parts of the library, too. It's a fascinating place. I get goosebumps when I go. And you were the first chief investment officer at New York Public Library. I'm like, wow, wow, wow. What was that like? How did that come about? It was crazy. I mean, I was so honored. I actually was like, what is going on? So David actually called me up one day. I was at Rockefeller. I love working at Rockefeller University. It was, it's such a gem of an institution. They produce all these Nobel laureates. It's basic biomedical science. People are spending their lifetimes doing breakthroughs in science, impacting society. Like, I loved it. I worked. I had an employee there, Carol Eineker, who was, like, one of the first female partners on Wall street, was so, again, so lucky. And my colleague Lisa Danzig as well. And he's like, you're ready. And I was 30. He's like, you're ready. You're ready to go. I was like, ready to go for what? Like, I love my job. And he's like, nope, there's a job at your public library. They need a CIO, and, like, you need to, you need to go interview and, like, take this job. And I was like, david, I'm really happy. He's like, no. And so he kept pestering me. And so I finally interviewed, and then I, I did force myself to interview for other CIO roles because I didn't want it to be him, like, just placing me there, which I did. And I was able to kind of would have been able to go to another place, but I think, you know, ultimately decided to go to the library. I mean, what an amazing place the library is. In addition to the main research libraries, which are spectacular, you have the branch libraries that, like, educate people. A lot of immigrants learn English there. It's a lot, a lot of kids go there after school for a safe place. Like, it's just also a gemdez and an amazing place. So, yeah, so he, like, threw me in. I was 30 years old. I was like, david, I don't know what to do. I don't even have a staff. He's like, well, you can just, just network a lot and talk to me and like, we'll do it, you know? And he did this with a lot of people. I mean, there's so many of my colleagues at, you know, much larger institutions, but that were also kind of constantly. He was really pushing for people to go spread the word and go have their own career, which is pretty amazing. I mean, if you look at the CIO's across the institutions, it's a huge number from, like, an impact standpoint at some of the major places. So, so, yeah, so David was responsible for that as well. And that's incredible. It was incredible. I would say that it was like a really, you know, it was scary. I, like, got in. I had a very high powered investment committee, and, you know, it's one thing to be part of a team, it's another. And we had had a wonderful investment committee at Rockefeller University, and so, and Carol, you know, we had a smaller team there. She really helped teach me the power of being female in finance in a way that was different and to really use your differences to be kind of stand out and be positive in a positive way. So she really helped me build up my confidence while I worked for her there. And I think that was really pivotal to enable me to be take that job, frankly, as well. So back to having, like, amazing mentors. But it was, you know, it was, you know, you have to learn governance, you have to learn dealing with, like, very high powered committee members and getting consensus. And, you know, in institutions, committees can be, you know, good and individuals are well meaning, but they're not always, like, aligned in the way that they move forward. And, like, it was very interesting to learn how to do that, how to get consensus. You know, I had a lot of support. I had to learn, like, advocacy people advocating for you versus support is very different and worked really hard. And the other thing that was interesting about that experience that kind of semi led me into family land was we were, it was a smaller endowment. It was, when I was there, it was not. It was almost a billion, but not quite there yet. We were really trying to institutionalize the process and create more rigor and due diligence. The committee had actually done a really good job from an investment standpoint, but it was kind of taking it to the next level. And I had inherited an investment from one of the major banks in a real estate fund. And I knew I didn't want to re up on the fund. It was a private fund. But I just wanted to know what we were invested in, to know what the directory was going to be. And I called up our contact, and I had gotten routed to, like, the retail side of the bank to a broker. And, you know, when we worked at Yale, we weren't even supposed to talk to Wall Street. David really wanted us to have our own opinions on things with independent research. And so I had never really experienced that before. And I remember I called him and I said, hey, like, we have this investment. I'd like to meet with the general partners with the guys who run it. I want to learn more about it. And he's like, oh, well, yeah, you can't do that, basically. And he's like, and by the way, do you want to re up? We're like, raising another fund. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, I'm a fiduciary. I'm the chief investment officer at the library. Like, I have to meet with them. I don't, I don't understand what you're saying. Anyway, we went back and forth, and I, like, hung up with no success. And then I, like, went to my contacts and I knew the head of institutional sales at the bank, and I called him up. His name was Tony. And I was like, hey, Tony, can I. It's Casey. He's like, hey, how are you doing? I'm like, I'm here. I have this investment I really need to meet. He's like, sure, I'll set that up. Like, immediately. And it was so, and I had board members who worked, who were partners at the bank, and it was just so interesting. I was like, this is so bizarre. What a weird world. Like, I make one phone call on the institutional side, and I'm immediately get the answers that I want as a fiduciary, and I call this other side that they consider retail, which is families, and I can't get anywhere, and I'm the same client. Right. It's like, this is so odd. And so when I was approached to help start a wealth management firm and really initially started to build the investment team, I was like, yes, this is like, definitely something that's really bizarre in the marketplace. That's like, not, you know, families are not being, especially families of size are not being well served in the space because they're not being treated. A lot of the people that work with them are not fiduciaries, actually. They're brokers. And so we thought that there was an interesting place for us to fit in that world where it's indicated. Did that help lead to which we're going to talk about to Truvo Partners? Yeah, that was like the original foundings of our predecessor to Truvo, which was roundtable, which I was brought in originally to be the CIO, and to Bill as a partner, and to build the investment team. And they really wanted us to build a world class investment team like similar to what the endowments had. And so that was really interesting because I had come out of there with not a lot of business savvy, frankly, a lot on the investment side. Very experienced, multi asset class investor understood how those businesses were set up in alignment and what looked like a good investment from a business and investment standpoint, but not having been commercial, I guess, in that regard. And so that was really the origins. And the idea was that we were for families of size, that where the wealth was intergenerational, we felt like we could give them better access across the globe to opportunities. And again, that different framework of investing that we think would be a better match for them and their families. Yeah. And I have to imagine that the families coming into Trubo at the time, it sounds like you were one of the first champions to introduced the concept. And this is my own assumption of fiduciary. When I first came to the industry, it was one of the first words that I had to understand and I had to grasp, and it was a word that was being used quite often by registered investment advisors, and I really didn't understand what it meant until I was fully, fully immersed in the business. I have to imagine that it was a separator and a competitive advantage long ago with Truvo because, you know, we were, let's face it, like Wall street has a, has a bad name and a bad reputation in some circumstances, but, you know, here you are, fiduciary with an underpinning of, you know, the endowment model. Rockefeller, which, by the way, I have to tell you my favorite Rockefeller story. I was at the Soan investment research conference. Oh, yeah, Rockefeller was the maid. Which soan investment research conference for the pediatric cancer. Doug Hirsch was one of our managers back in the day. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rockefeller donated the technology and the special microscope. Again, I'm not giving it, giving it justice right here to make that possible. Like that first piece of equipment to really launch that way back when, before Soan was acquired by Bloomberg. Yeah, yeah. A fascinating. But maybe I was there in the audience. I know you probably were playing, but. Let'S talk about how that. Let's talk about Trubo. You started. So you were there, which another thing in your background, I'm fascinated, fascinated, Casey. Bye. You know, women have had to, and men, too, right? Like, this is not just a women thing. Like if you're somewhere for 16 years, you are. There are certain challenges that crop up no matter what. I'm fascinated by what gives that, what gives that career, professional the strength, the fortitude to stick it out during tough times. If we know anything from financial services, especially women, and we're trying to keep more women here, trying to get more women into the industry, it's like when that challenge shows up and they're like, oh, no, I'm out of here. And if they were to just like, just stick it out, talk to somebody, get mentorship, you know, you talked about sponsorship, ambassadorship, all of those things. I would love to hear from you, like what that experience was like for, you know, for 16 years. What gave you the fortitude? What were some of this, the people that you relied on, you know, as a great takeaway for somebody listening right now that might be saying, you know what, things are kind of tough where I'm at right now. I don't know whether or not I should make a move. Clearly, they would have somebody like you or even a David in their life that could give this. Yeah, no, it's instrument. It's funny. I'm laughing because we started in like zero seven, and then I, it was with two former Goldman guys, Jeff Blasi and Dick Herbs, who helped start the predecessor, which was roundtable, and they brought me in, and then zero eight happens, and we're like, oh, my God, the world's coming to an end. So it was definitely, like. And we started from scratch. So it was definitely a lot of, like, hard work, I think, you know, having mentors and people that you can talk to are advocates for you. Like, you know, Jeff and dick hired me. I still. While I was CIO at the library, I was young. They definitely made a bet on me. They brought me in to be CIO, made me a partner. Like, that was huge, I think, you know, when we. We went through, I often say, like, you know, I grew up swimming, and you fail a lot, and you fail, like, it's not like a team where you can, like, oh, we lost the game, but that person didn't play great. And that makes it. It's like the time on the clock said that you failed, like, you lost or you didn't do your right time, or, like, so I do feel like I'm a really big believer in sports are really helpful to learn how to fail. And I always joke around that, like, swimming. You can't debate it. No, you can't. The time is the time, right, exactly. And I remember when I was a kid, I got upset once. Cause my sister also swam, and she got a medal, and I was, like, crying, and my mom was like, maybe if you would work a little harder, you could go faster next time. Thanks, mom. Yeah, I know. And my mom was amazing. But anyway, so I think I definitely have a piece of me that I think doesn't give up now. You could argue sometimes, you should give up. So I always, like, pause on that a little bit because I think. And when we did a generational transfer in 18 to Truvo, and I was also going through a divorce at the same time. And so it was, like, a very difficult. That was probably my most difficult time. And they were all the right things to do for all various reasons, and they all came out, in retrospect, to be great things, but that was a really tough time. And I think about who helped me through that, in addition to my family and close friends. Like, David was instrumental. I remember I was going up to have dinners with him almost every quarter because he was battling cancer. And I would joke with him. I would go up there for him, and then inevitably, I'd be crying about something, and he would hold my hand and, like, he would be like, casey, don't forget. I remember him saying to me, like, don't forget who you are. And don't forget your grounding and just come back to who you are as a person and always come back to that. And that was so helpful. And the other thing I had that I recommend for people because it's been so instrumental in my career as I've gotten more senior, is like, I joke around, I have my therapist and I have my coach, but I've used an executive coach that we started using during that transition, and he's amazing. His name's Randall Stuttman at CRa, and I know he's helped a lot of people in the industry, but it's just so great to have guidance in areas. And I think for women in particular, like, a lot of us, don't always trust our gut instincts, and we're usually right. And to have. We are absolutely. We have that. Yeah. And to have someone who's, like, in the industry and I. Coaches deal with a lot of different players in the industry to kind of, they'll tell you when you're misguided, but they also tell you when to go with it, when they're like, trust your convictions, trust your confidence. Maybe pivot a little bit this way in the way you handle it, but don't lose that conviction, I think has been unbelievably instrumental. And then what happens is there's almost like this pattern recognition, like, the more you trust your gut and you lean in to, and it goes the right way, like, the more then you build that confidence and you're able to kind of make those big decisions. And the other thing I would say is, like, you really have to learn, like, it's okay to make a mistake, like, every decision. It's funny because in investing, you make mistakes a lot. Like any, you know, I always say the hit rate on a good investor is not as high as you would think. And, you know, to be a successful investor, you have to take risks, so you're going to make mistakes. And we try to minimize those and minimize the negative outcome from it, but you're going to make mistakes. So I think people, women in particular, need to get a little more comfortable making mistakes and finding their voice. And I think having mentors to bounce ideas off of and coaches are really helpful. The other thing, I had a group of us when we were all single without kids together for dinners, and now we're all kind of older and we have successful careers and we're all more senior and they've just been great friends but also sounding boards over the years for business stuff. So being able to call somebody and have a really casual, almost, like, vulnerable conversation about work and business is highly valuable as you're trying to, like, make big decisions and kind of move forward. So I've just been, I've been really lucky to have amazing people, you know, around to help support me as I've moved through, like, difficult things. Well, one of the things that I'm really grateful for right now, Casey, is how you're being so transparent and vulnerable right now, because from the outside looking in, women look at other women who have had amazing careers such as yourself, and we just think that everything has been probably a lot easier than it was. And so you're giving us some coping mechanisms right now. I can relate to a lot of what you're saying. Divorce as well, too. And that's super hard. And the idea to have coaches and mentors when you're going through something and being able to just talk openly and transparent, I think a lot of us have made some incredible friends here in the industry. You know, who you can trust and who you can confide when you need to make those kind of tough decisions. So I know that it's going to inspire a lot of the people who are listening right now to say, you know what, the next time I'm on, I remember once I was on a call and I said, look, I can't fake it today. I'm not. I was like, I want you to just be totally aware, and I want to let you know what's going on right now. And things aren't so great. So if you're not seeing me happy and peppy and all of those things, that's, that's really why. So that's, that's good. I think we used to look back on it as it was a bad thing. I don't know why we did that. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny now having, you know, we had talked a little bit about our team being in our leadership, in our group being half men and women, basically. Like gender balance. Yeah, it's, we're way more open about things. I mean, I'm really lucky. I work with, I mean, the other thing that I didn't mention is my amazing partners that I've had and, and partners at Lazard. I want to just make sure. Right, so Truevo was, was true. You were partners, though. So we all, sorry. Yes, we're now at Lazard, but we still consider ourselves, I guess, partners within our wealth platform now. But it's the partners like I've been with for, yeah, like ten to 16 years. Wow. You know, and we all, there's like a, you know, and I think after Covid especially, like, there's just a humanity to all of it. I think we, we all really respect each other. We also, when you work with people for that long, you know what everybody's capable of. We've all worked really hard. We've all had massive contributions to the business, kind of getting ourselves to lazard. And it really took us all working together to get there. But I think, like, you know, like Zoom calls, I joke around during COVID you know, we had one guy which was so great. He had just had a baby and he's like, burping the baby on a zoom call. That was such a gift to everybody to say, like, it's okay the women, it's okay to have your kids around. Like, you know, that's life. Like, it's just everybody's dealing with it and your life has to be in a good place or you can't be productive at work. So I think a lot of that has come out. And I think because we have that gender balance, it's kind of like out in the open for everybody to see. It's not something you have to, like, be quiet about anymore, which is really liberating. It's great. Yeah. I was stalking Lazard on YouTube as well, too. I ran into, there was the 175th anniversary. Really awesome at how they integrated. Of course, being in marketing and media, we're constantly telling brands that they should have a YouTube presence to talk about the culture, to shine a light on the amazing work and the amazing people and the amazing team. And that was very apparent to, from Lazard, to be able to see that culture, to be able to see the international component and just the humanity of the very things that you're bringing. But you're also talking about this idea that there is a more thoughtful gender balance. And I'm curious, for firms, again, that might over index or might be skewed in one way, how does that gender balance is? There's, you know, surely it provides a competitive edge for firms. We know that it's been research, but what would you say about that for firms that are looking to create more diverse, bring more women in and have more of that gender balance? Yeah, I mean, we think it's. I think, and I think it's not just gender. I think it's across what I've learned. You know, it's, it's living it now. Like, it happened for us organically. We were lucky because we had women at the top already. So it's frankly easier. And now it's, like, self fulfilling because you already have so many women. It was important to us to have women not just in certain areas, but across kind of every vertical. So we have it in the investment team and the client team and our family office services team, kind of across the board. But I would say, and like you said, the numbers are now showing up that it actually has demonstrably positive outcomes, I think. But I liken it to, like, it's one dimension that's, like, different. Right. And because you're a man or a woman, you grow up, like, a little bit differently in certain ways, but you also have your own personalities. Right. And so I think of the same way of, like, I always joke around, like, I didn't grow up with a lot of money, but, like, I also think that people who grow up with a lot of money have a different perspective, and those two perspectives are equally valuable. You know, I get, you always hear these stories, like, I grew up poor, and I like, whatever, and that's so great, and that makes me really good at what I do. And that's true. But someone who grew up really wealthy, grew up with a totally different perspective, and that's actually helpful also. So I just find that you have a more 360 type of thought process. You know, in the early days, it was like, investments. I always give the example of, like, you know, a bunch of guys talking about investments in, like, women's health, and they focus on these certain attributes, and you're like, well, you're forgetting about all these other things that women care about. And, like, how would they know? It's not something they experience. But I think that kind of, you can do that across, like, many different areas. So I just think, like, you know, number one, too, I believe in, like, it isn't Dei. Like, there are smart, capable, amazing people across all these dimensions. So. And it's our job. Our job is to find talent. That's what we do on the investment side, and that's what we do in terms of our managers, and it's what we're do we're doing for our team. And so I just view it as, like, you know, we don't want everybody looking the same. Like, I'm a big believer that people's strengths, we talk about this a lot are their weaknesses. So, like, we have someone, I always tell them, like, 80% of the time it works for you, 20% of the time it gets you in trouble, and you got to minimize that. But you don't want everybody having the same 80%. Like that doesn't really add any value. Then you're all just saying the same thing. And I think when you're thinking about things like risk and outcomes and potential paths having varying vantage points, different outcomes and different ways to kind of experience are all fine. It's like I joke around, you'll be in a relationship and you get into this agreement, and then you recap it later. And the way you remember it is slightly different, right? Because you're not the same human being. And so even my partner Jerome will go into a meeting and we'll listen to the manager. We'll come out and I'll be like, when he said this thing, I really didn't like it. And he's like, oh, I didn't hear him say it that way. It's helpful. We're in the same exact meeting together. The person said whatever they said, he didn't say it two different ways, but we took it in two different ways. And so that's helpful on the margin. It's helpful to hear that. So it allows us to dig in on those things a little more to make sure we heard what we heard, the way it was intended. I would probably be negligent if I didn't ask some sort of investment question right now, being that it is an election year, the Fed, the whole backdrop of rising interest rates and inflation. Election year, it feels like a perfect. We just also, too, came off one of the biggest cyber global it crisis. Right. Which kind of, I'm sure, kind of factors in. What are you seeing in terms of the macro picture right now? What kind of themes have the attention of the room? Yeah. So obviously, interest rates is huge. Everybody's kind of talking about it. We, you know, we demonstrably do not make bets on interest rates. We feel like our portfolios that we build in advance, we kind of assume a crisis is going to happen in the future. So we try to build portfolios that we can weather through ups and downs and that we can stay invested. And that's kind of back to that kind of customized asset allocation for who you're working with, whether it's a family or an institution. All of our families have customized asset allocations because of that. But with that being said, I think I would say we were surprised early on in the year at how bullish everybody was about interest rate cuts. And we didn't think that that was necessarily going to happen. It hasn't. You know, like I said, we don't really make bets on that, but it's, you know, that has not played out. And so rates have stayed a little bit higher. I think, you know, the inflation numbers are coming down. So I wouldn't be surprised if there were rate cuts, you know, towards the fourth quarter. And I think that'll give a little bit of pressure off some of the stress. But I think, like, listen, we were in a decades long, frothy market, in my opinion, and there were periods of time when the froth, like, almost got cut down. But then we had market peaks evaluations, and then we thought it couldn't go much higher. And then Trump did the tax, the corporate tax cut, and we got another leg. And then we had Covid. And I said, if you look at Covid in the following year, the s and P was up over 20% in two years. It's kind of wild during global pandemic. So when rates finally had to go back up because of the post Covid kind of inflation, it's not surprising that all these things would kind of get disrupted. So we think it's healthy. It might not be fun for a lot of people. I think we were fairly disciplined coming into it. So I feel like we're actually, like, I don't want to use the word excited, but we're constructive about things kind of dislocating. I like the idea of assets getting back to valuations that are normal, and you're seeing pockets of it. Someone described it to me as. I thought it was a great analogy, as popcorn. It's not like zero eight where everything's just getting washed out, but it's more like things are exploding here and there. When debt maturities come due on a company or on an asset like real estate, you're seeing things really dislocate. There's pockets like office in real estate that are really in trouble and where big equity losses will happen. But I think in other areas, there's like, if you have cash and you're in a good position, you know, there's going to be lots of things to take advantage of. So I think as we look forward, you know, there's lots going on. There's lots of things. We get back to that control, not control things. There's tons of, like, scary things going on, like the war in Israel or the hostages haven't even got, you know, come back yet. You have the Ukraine war here, and then all the interest rate talks. So there's lots to be nervous about. But I think if you, like, take a deep breath and look at the opportunity set going forward, there's still a lot of really interesting things. And AI, of course, has given us another leg up in that regard. There's lots of transformative things happening, and the AI disruption will both lift some companies up and leave other companies behind. And what we're seeing in the market is just huge dispersion in a way that we haven't seen in a while. So that gets us really excited because dispersion means there's things to buy and sell. And so I think we're finding lots of opportunities kind of across the board, but it might be a little messy and volatile for a while. And I think we're really lucky that we get to have a very long term mindset in that regard. And so it reminds me, actually, the period reminds me a lot of when I first entered the industry, which was like in the middle to late nineties, where we actually had a lot. I said, we have the Asia currency crisis, we had the russian crisis, we had long term capital. We had the original tech bubble bursting. There was just a lot of stuff going on. And so this level of volatility and stuff is not that abnormal. It's just that we've been in this weird period for a long time with super low interest rates, so that's long winded. But we're actually pretty constructive about, we feel good about it. And for anyone listening right now, again, Lazard family office partners, what's the best way to get in touch with you, for anybody that wants to really tap into that and talk to you more offline about it? Yeah, well, I'm on LinkedIn, so that's an easy way to kind of ping us. We're also really excited. We're about to do kind of a relaunch of the whole Lazard asset management website in the fall, which some of the leaders and colleagues in that space have been working really hard on. And we're excited about that. So we hope to have more presence kind of on that when the relaunch happens and be able to get more content and other stuff. Hopefully podcasts, your podcast up on there, and more access and email always works, too. Awesome. Thank you for that, Casey. So we're going to switch gears. We're going to go a little bit more on the personal side again. And, and in the suite, we've kind of evolved, used to have most of the questions revolve around the personal and around the professional. And what I'm finding right now is like, the personal is such an important part in terms of like, wellness and reading and professional development. What's curious, what's on your nightstand right now. Like, you know, there's so many modern things happening. Anything that you're reading right now that has got you, like, you know, really excited that you want to share? Yeah, I'm reading. I think people have probably been reading it, but I'm reading the Netflix book, the no rules. Rules, which has been really, really great to read. I mean, I just. I find when people are taking completely different takes on things, you know, as true vote. During COVID we did a lot of things differently. Leadership from my head of HR, Jen Pachodo, who really taught us a lot about things that we could do during that period to kind of enhance the culture. You know, we have a culture club that she created. A lot of the younger people across the platform are part of that. And so it's funny, a lot of the things that we've worked on, you know, Reid talks about in that book. Some of it is, like, hard to imagine you could actually implement, but I think it's always good to, like, expand your mind about. So I'm in the process of reading that, which was recommended by a colleague, and then I. I have the book that I have on my shelf I haven't read yet, is a duo. It's like, the courage to be liked, and then the other side of it is the courage to be disliked. And I always think about, as I was, like, moving up in my career, and you hit a lot of, like, difficult times being a woman in the early years. And my dad would always say to me, Casey, it's okay for people not to like you. You might just walk in a room and someone might not like you, and you need to be okay with that. So I'm very much looking forward to reading that book. So hopefully still evolving on that subject. Some really great food for thought, and then in the suite. And this is. I will admit that this is a biased question, because I've had quite a personal health journey in the last couple years, but is there a personal health or lifestyle wellness tip, something that you do in your daily routine or repertoire that has, like, helped you professionally, help you achieve your, you know, your. Your best. Your best sense of self? You know, you talked about that early on about David saying, you know, the importance of framework and you being you. So what kind of activity helps you? Helps Casey Whelan be. Be you? I mean, I've tried everything, some with success, some would not. I mean, I. It's funny, I always try. I've been trying over years to do meditation, but I honestly have a very hard time like, shutting my brain off to do it. But, like, one thing I read in the last few months that I actually think it seems so simple, but I think it helps is just the value of, like, being outside. And, you know, a lot of us, because we, like, you know, you know, with kids, like, you're getting kids ready in the morning, you're, like, getting out the door. You end up in meetings all day. Sometimes I don't even get lunch. And then all of a sudden, I'm, like, walking out the door, and it's like, you know, it's not like having been outside. And so it was. It talked about just spending ten minutes in the morning outside with trees. And so I live in Hoboken, New Jersey, and I have a little urban backyard, and in my backyard is a dogwood tree. I grew up with, like, a dogwood tree in my. We grew up on, like, four acres in New Jersey, but I had a dogwood tree, was, like, my tree growing up. And then I have planted also a crepe myrtle in the corner because we go down the Jersey shore, down in, like, Avalon, Cape May area, and they have crepe myrtles everywhere. I love it. So I now try to go in the morning, and I also have, like, I drink bone broth before coffee now to get more protein, but it also makes you drink less coffee. It's kind of amazing. And I sit outside, and I try to sit for ten minutes. And I do think it helps, weirdly, just like, being outside with the nature. And I remember during COVID we did a lot of bike rides in the morning to stay sane up the Hudson river and back with the kids because we were all going, you know, it was, like, crazy then. And I remember we would have better days when we did that than when we didn't, so. But now that we're back in the hustle of everything, anyway, ten minutes outside with trees. That's my new. I love it. I totally subscribe to that. I took a walk today. I did a lap, sat outside, drank. Here's my dug it, everybody. The bone broth. I tried the bone broth, and I think you've got. Well, now there are lots of different varieties and things. That's really. I hear that's really good. Well, I know that we have been so inspired by your. By your advice, by your experience, by your openness. I thank you so much, Casey, for being professional, that you are being a great example, being totally, you know, human, and being a fantastic, a fabulous guest here in the suite. And again, for people who want to connect with you. I know that they can connect with you on LinkedIn and follow Lazard also, too, on LinkedIn and on YouTube. Can't wait for that new website. And we're so appreciative. Thank you so much for being here in the suite. Thanks, Tina.

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Tina Powell

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