In the Suite

EP 89 Redefining Finance: Nia Impact Capital's Kristen Hull on Gender Lens Investing and Racial Equity

• Tina Powell | Intention.ly • Season 3 • Episode 89

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Today, we are thrilled to welcome the visionary Kristin Hull In The Suite. As the founder of Nia Impact Capital, Kristin is a true trailblazer in gender lens investing. In 2013, she launched Nia Global Solutions, fusing activism with impact investing in the public markets. 

Kristin crafted Nia’s six solutions-focused investment themes, expertly weaving a gender lens into every aspect of the investment process. Her forward-thinking leadership led to the launch of the Nia Growth and Dividend portfolio in 2018 and the Nia Racial Justice portfolio in 2022, both of which have set bold new standards for inclusivity and equity in finance.

In this episode, we’ll explore Kristin’s incredible journey—her dedication to empowering female leaders, advocating for racial equity audits, and the pivotal role of investors in shaping a more just and equitable economy. Kristin’s blend of financial expertise and passion for social justice has placed Nia Impact Capital at the forefront of intentional investing, driving meaningful change with purpose and impact.

Before dedicating her career to conscious investing, Kristin was an educator, co-founding the North Oakland Community Charter School and serving on the founding board of the George Mark Children’s House, the first children’s hospice and palliative care center in the U.S.

Kristin’s academic journey is equally impressive—she holds a Ph.D. in Urban Education from UC Berkeley, an MA from Stanford, and a BA from Tufts. She continues to influence impactful organizations like How Women Lead and GenderSmart, serving on multiple boards, including the Mosaic Project and American Rivers.

But that’s not all. We also dive into Kristin’s work advocating for a racial equity audit at MetLife, her groundbreaking work on Tesla, and her experiences navigating the male-dominated asset management industry. Plus, we’ll hear about Nia’s impactful internship program, which empowers the next generation of female leaders, and her personal wellness practices like river rafting and connecting with nature.

Kristin’s journey from educator to a pioneering force in finance is fueled by a deep commitment to reshaping capitalism and promoting diversity in leadership. She’s redefining what it means to invest with intention and purpose, right here In The Suite.

🔗 Links

Kristin Hull on LinkedIn
Nia Impact Capital Website
Gender Lens Investing - Crain Currency 8/15/24
Kristin Hull's Speech for MetLife AGM
Kristin Hull's Speech for Tesla AGM
Kristin's Book Recommendation "Leading with Joy: Practices for Uncertain Times" by Akaya Windwood, Rajasvini Bhansali

🤩 Thanks for listening, we appreciate your support and 5-star reviews of our show!!!

❤️ Please follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/inthesuitepod/

📧 Want to get in touch? Email me at tina@growintentionally.com


On this week's episode of in the. Suite with Tina Powell and Genderlands. Investing isn't just for women, it's actually for everybody. If you think about our current economy and our current investment system, it was largely created by men for men without us in mind. And what happens when one group or one sector or one type of person, you know, creates something? There are things that are missing. If we don't have more clear and transparent types of investment products that appeal to women in color, that are made with a gender lens and an eye for racial equity and really looking out for our environment, then we're in trouble. Hi, this is Tina Powell, host of in the suite, where I sit down with top women leaders and some of the biggest names in the financial services and the wealth management industry. Together, we'll discover some of their best secrets and top strategies to grow great business, build a strong brand, and lead teams in the 21st century. I hope you'll enjoy hearing their amazing personal stories of triumph, trepidation and transformation in hopes of becoming better leaders ourselves. The time for you to lead is now, and youre in the suite today, we're thrilled to welcome the visionary Kristen hall in the suite. As the founder of NIA Impact Capital, Kristen is a true trailblazer in gender lens investing. In 2013, she launched Nia global solutions. Fusing activism with impact investing in the public markets, Kristen crafted NIA's six solutions focused investment themes, expertly weaving a gender lens into every aspect of the investment process. Her forward thinking leadership led to the launch of the NIA growth and dividend portfolio in 2018 and the NIA racial Justice portfolio in 2022, both of which have set bold new standards for inclusivity and equity in finance. In this episode, we'll explore Kristen's incredible journey, her dedication to empowering female leaders, advocating for racial equity audits, and the pivotal role of investors in shaping a more just and equitable economy. Kristen's blend of financial expertise and passion for social justice has placed near impact capital at the forefront of intentional investing, driving meaningful change with purpose and impact. Before deciding and dedicating her career to conscious investing, Kristen was an educator, co founding the North Oakland Community Charter School and serving on the founding board of the George Mark Children's House, the first children's hospice and palliative care center in the United States. Kristen's academic journey is equally impressive. She holds a PhD in urban education from UC Berkeley, a master's from Stanford, and a bachelor's from Tufts. She continues to influence impactful organizations like how women lead and gender smart, serving on multiple boards including the mosaic project and american rivers. But that's not all. We'll also dive into Kristen's work advocating for a racial equity audit at MetLife, her groundbreaking work on Tesla, and her experiencing navigating the male dominated asset management industry. Plus, we'll hear about Nia's impactful internship program, which empowers the next generation of female leaders, and her personal wellness practices like river rafting and connecting with nature. Kristen's journey from educator to a pioneering force in finance is fueled by a deep commitment to reshaping capitalism and promoting diversity and leadership. She's redefining what it means to invest with intention and purpose right here in the suite. Kristen Hull. Wow. Take a seat in the suite. How are you doing today? I'm good. Happy Friday. I'm excited to be here with you. Oh, I'm so excited. I'm thrilled. I'm honored. I have been following your work and like I told you at the top of this conversation, I've had a lot of fun digging into your background and all of the amazing work that you're doing at NIA Impact Capital. You are a pioneering force and I put a capital p on the pioneering part for creating a more inclusive and sustainable financial future. You've been doing this for decades. It's truly, truly exciting. I feel that you have truly revolutionized impact investing, proving that purpose driven investments can fuel both social change and, and financial success. A big part of that, you are a well known leader. You are quoted everywhere. You can find, Kristen everywhere. We're going to put links in the, in the show notes and all of that. Kristen, all is somebody, ladies, that you need to have on your radar. I'm just such a fan of your work and specifically also to what you're doing for next gen women. It is amazing. We are going to have a fantastic conversation. I want to, like, dig in pretty quickly here. You know, one of the things that you talk about is this idea of women owned firms making up just over 1%, 1% of our total economy. You have some really interesting stats, Kristen, about women and investing and, like, the current trends and why it's so important as women for us to be aware of these facts. So, Gret, I'd love for you to get us started. Okay, well, thank you, Tina, for having me today. I'm really excited about this conversation. And actually, the stats are worse than that. Women owned asset management firms, that's what we do at NIA Impact Capital. We are asset management firms and we build investment products and women owned firms make up 0.7%. So less than 1% of our entire economy. Of the $84 trillion in investment products that sit in four hundred one s and individual accounts are created by women and run by women owned firms. So we've got some work to do as far as changing the face of finance and really changing the way we do our economy. And why does that matter? Asset managers are the ones that choose which companies go into a mutual fund or an ETF and which ones don't, largely shaping our economy as making decisions about where the assets are going to flow. And then, of course, women investors can have a huge role to play here because we can all say to our advisors or our platforms or our banks where we're investing our money, show us the women. Show us the women owned asset management firms that are creating this products. Which products? Which of my investments in my 401K have women leaders? And if I don't have any, please request them. And we as female investors have such a big place to play in shaping our economy this way as well. Yeah, I didn't realize the statistics are that poor. 0.7%. That's truly incredible. One of the other things that you know, your topics that you're really, really passionate about is this idea of gender lens investing. I want you to dig into the concept of gender lens investing is actually the, I'm still learning the ropes of this as well. Even though that I am a female investor. I have made some conscious decisions as it relates to my own portfolio. But I would love for you to share what is this concept of gender lens investing? Because a lot of, I think, are our female counterparts. Look, we're both educated women here. You have a PhD. This isn't showing up in business school. Unfortunately, not yet. It's really not. And it's very, really unfortunate. So, and Genderlands investing isn't just for women, it's actually for everybody. If you think about our current economy and our current investment system, it was largely created by men, for men, without us in mind. And what happens when one group or one sector or one type of person creates something? There are things that are missing and there are ideas that are missing. And by incorporating a gender lens, we actually can have better investment results and men can have them too. And of course we can have a better economy and we can have more equality. And what does it mean to invest with a gender lens? If you think about like one of our most prevalent investment products is the S and P 500, and that is largely the largest 500 companies in the US. Women would never have designed a product like that. We wouldn't say, oh, the US is the only place to invest. And we wouldn't say, oh, only large companies. The way women think about our economy, largely, and this is a stereotype, though it does play out, is we want to know what the company is doing. What are the products and services that it's working on? How is it baked? Is it baked with purpose? Do these products and services matter? Do they benefit people in society and our earth and our environment? And then is there a team in place, the governance, the executive team, the board of directors that are qualified to be able to do this work? So those are the types of ways that we could incorporate a gender lens. Of course, at NIA, we do need to see diversity in leadership at all of the companies we choose. And so why is this so groundbreaking? It's kind of nuts. When I started this portfolio back in 2012, bringing that gender lens eliminated over 50% of the companies we looked at because they had all white male boards. The good news is that is changing. There are groups like how women lead, that are training women to be board ready and to step up into board leadership so that we can actually change those numbers. And again, investors can change those numbers too, because the economy does reflect and respond to what investors want. So if we have more women saying we want products that have women in leadership, we can get there also looking again for products and services that are beneficial to women. So that's particularly easy to think about in the healthcare sector, where we have such a big gap in our healthcare. And so getting more investment dollars to those companies that are working on solutions for women is one way we can do that. Healthcare, it has special significance to me as well, too, there. And I think historically, Kristen, and tell me if I'm wrong, that there has been this unfair assumption that investing with a gender lens has a bit of a trade off. The way that you talk about it on NIA capital site is that you're investing for positive returns and positive impacts. And I think traditionally that we've been. Again, it's just a bias. Maybe perhaps you can actually achieve the best of both worlds here. Oh, absolutely. And kudos or credit to whoever came up with that myth, because it's a complete myth, and generally the people that start the counter narrative feel a little bit threatened because whatever they were doing might stand to be changed. And that's true in the fossil fuel industry as well. With this adoption of ESG investing, environment, social and governance, of course, gender lens falls into the s. There it actually fits across all of them, because with a gender lens, we're looking out for the environment. We're also looking out for climate and looking for governance and diversity there. At any rate, by bringing these additional lens, it means additional due diligence on companies, and we learn more about the risks involved in companies and also what are the opportunities in companies as well. And so by bringing this gender lens, you're actually reducing risk and oftentimes setting yourself up for higher returns. I want to get into a little bit of the action aspect of this, because you're not only the head of NIA capital and the founder and portfolio manager, but one of the things that I'm really impressed about, Kristen, about you, is that your ability to be a voice and act, I came across your speech at MetLife's annual general meeting on June 18, that was just a few months ago, where you advocated for a racial. Racial equity audit. And, of course, we'll include it in our podcast knows. But again, I was like, wow, racial equity audit. Here I am in finance now for the last. Since 2006, made a full commitment of full immersion in 2010. I've never heard of or ever met anyone advocating for a racial equity audit. And I was so delighted. Right, delighted to bring this concept to the in the suite audience here. I would love for you to explain what a racial audit is. And even if you can get into a little bit of the due diligence, like, how do we as women, now, we can't do the level of due diligence that you can. Right. But how does the average woman, like, know all of these concepts and know these things? Okay, well, great questions. And the average woman doesn't need to know all of these things. They just need to know what to ask for, because financial advisors need to be choosing managers like us to be able to do that work. And so as long as women know what to ask for, we'll do all the in the weeds work, and we're happy to do all of that. And yet, it is a woman's job, I would say, to somehow become empowered enough that, you know, your voice matters. And when you go to your investment advisor and you can ask for these things and not get mansplained, because that does happen often, and it's troubling to see, because, again, our economy has really been organized for men. And when women try to insert their values and then also their ideas about what will bring better returns, we're often not heard or listened to. So sometimes I even advise bringing a friend, someone that can sit there and hold your hand while you speak your mind and ask for the things you want. And then, of course, you are paying your advisor to do this work. So ideally, really, they're bringing you the investment products that are going to make you happy and that are also going to help meet your goals across financial, social, and any other mission alignment that you're looking for. So just over to what we do. We do seek to have a win win relationship with every company we invest in. We don't see, I guess, this economy as transactional as the men have created it. We really want it to be relational. And we do know that all companies have room for improvement. Ours, yours, everybody has room for improvement. And that investor voice can be helpful in bringing some outside perspective. And so we do that. We seek to do that with all of our companies. Another one that I spoke at this spring was TESLA. And so I saw that, I was. Like, you went head to head with Elon. Whoa, whoa. I didn't set you off there? That was amazing. Actually, both of those letters are actually going be in our notes. Well, well done. I would love for you to kind of dig into that because Tesla was a holding. Is Tesla still a whole thing for you? No. So we actually did early on identify, particularly the battery play, and get really excited about this transition. And, you know, I don't know that we want to go too much into the CEO there and yet love him or hate him. We, we do give him credit for completely disrupting and changing our automobile industry in the US. And yet we do need to see every company in our portfolio. The CEO does need to report to the board, and in that company, that does not happen. We also need to see progress on the environment, on social and on governance. And they have done more backsliding than any other company that we know. And they're actually spending what appears to be a large amount of money on lawsuits to defend things rather than putting in human capital practice that makes sense to grow more innovation and to attract top talent and retain top talent. So there's a lot of issues on that company there. But just jumping back to MetLife and your question about a racial equity audit, it's quite similar, in fact, to bringing a gender lens, is just looking at every possible place in a company almost like you would do a financial audit. You just have that lens. So when you're thinking about who you are hiring, where are you recruiting? Are you recruiting at the colleges or universities where your founders or your CEO, your board members went, or are you opening that up, maybe to state schools and to a wider perspective there, historically black colleges, et cetera. How are you thinking about hiring? Does everybody need to have a college degree for these jobs? Could you do what's called second chance hiring and partnering with some of the prison systems to be bringing in and fostering opportunities and equity? We look at products and services. Of course, we actually do that first. What are the products and services, and how are they beneficial either to women and. Or to black and brown people in their communities? So, of course, easy to think about that and connect the dots with healthcare. We can think about the top seven diseases and afflictions to black Americans, everything from sickle cell to HIV to Covid to diabetes, etcetera. And we can look for the companies that are doing the very best at developing products and services along those lines. And then, of course, we want to see women and people of color in leadership. So those are some of the ways that we bring the gender lens and, or in this case, asking companies to look at how our policies and practices leading to equity. And, of course, the more inclusive the company is designed, we are seeing that there are better financial returns as well. So those are some of the things we're looking for. And just to jump back here into MetLife, just for a second here, because in your speech, you mentioned the historical practice, and this blew me away, Kristen. I was. I was sick. Race based life insurance premiums where black policyholders were charged 30% to 40% more than their white counterparts. I was truly shocked. I. In a 2024 world, I don't even understand how these policies could still be in effect. It baffles me. So I would love to tell you that this was an anomaly. This is actually quite pervasive across many of our industries, and we think about the practice of redlining as something from the past, and yet some of these are actually still on books. And real estate firms, where you can buy a property, who can be loaned money for a property, what types of business loans you can get. There's still so much discrimination that is set in. And, in fact, neighbors, friends of mine here in California, got their appraisal. They had their home appraised, and they weren't satisfied with the numbers. And they thought, you know, their neighbors homes had gone up in value. Why hadn't theirs? They wanted a second appraisal. They wanted to test it out. They took down the photos, all of their family photos that showed their black backgrounds. Wow. They put up some white photos from their neighbor, and they got another neighborhood to be there, a white person. When the auditor came through and when the assessor came through. And boy, if that home wasn't worth more once they took those photos down. Is there a formal way that they acknowledge your letter and your speech? So this is actually shareholder engagement. And so we start by reaching out to a company for a conversation, and we really seek, again, to have a win win conversation. And we want to see progress. And oftentimes we get lots of work done behind the scenes. You know, we've spoken to companies about reproductive justice, and particularly when the Dobbs decision came in, we sent letters and spoke to companies about what their policies and practice were and how they were maybe going to change, particularly for those that had operations in red states where we were going to need to think about travel policies and money for female employees, etcetera. We've also, you know, so at any rate, we're consistently each year sending out communications to our companies, and oftentimes they'll pick up the phone and we'll get on a zoom and we'll talk about issues and we'll make changes together. That's kind of our ideal. If they're not ready, or they're maybe a little stuck or too busy to listen to us, etcetera, then we have a formal process where we take things to the SEC and we file what's called a shareholder resolution with the SEC. And then the SEC looks at the merits of that and decides whether or not our resolution will be included on any company's proxy ballot and their proxy voting. And so that's how the process happened with MetLife and with Tesla as well as it went through the SEC and then appeared on their proxy ballot. Wow. Amazing. Amazing stuff. You were recently quoted in an article, Crane Currency, where you are a board member, and Nissa Amolas, who also is a voice managing partner at a 100 x Ventures. I hope that I have that correct. Um, you know, in lieu of our world today, 2024, AI has just blanketed all of our information, all of our processes, all of our organizations. And within that article, Kristen, she said something really interesting. She said that it would be nearly impossible to do a gender lens fund in AI and blockchain due to a lack of deal flow. Stating, and this is, I quote from the article, I've never subscribed to cutting out half your deal flow. As a venture investor. What's your response, and how do you think about gender lens investing, fitting into these emerging technologies that are so dominating, again, not only our consciousness, but literally our standard operating procedures in the way that we do work every day? Tina, you have just poked the bear. This is such a big topic really across our economy, and this is the place where investors in particular, particularly women investors, have such a role to play. As you mentioned, that's not the only male dominated industry. As I mentioned, women asset managers make up less than 1% and the numbers aren't that much better in the AI as far as the table and who's doing all that developing? Here's where that investor in particular, where we will disagree. Yes, most of the startups all the way up to the publicly traded are run by men right now. And yet an investor can bring their voice and they can say, I'm doing a fund and all of the companies that will receive investment dollars will have diversity and leadership. They'll have women at the algorithm table, they'll have women designers, and guess how many companies are going to then add women. I mean, they follow the money and they want that investment dollar and they will make changes early on. And it's really great to have in the venture space early on some of these requirements from investors, they're going to find that company culture really does get shaped early on. And so having a diverse set of individuals in the beginning is really, really important to development moving forward. And then having women on teams has been associated with, well, diverse teams have more innovation and what do we need in AI? More innovation. Right. We also have some lower risk tolerance. And basically adding women in the beginning is a smart gender lens strategy. And I would not do a fund otherwise. I actually was advising to a startup fund in Latin America with a similar issue. They really wanted to do a gender lens. And yet in Latin America they weren't finding what they thought would be enough women led companies to create this fund. And so they said, well, we're going to start with some male led companies. And then generally I was like, no, you actually get to choose. You're the investor, you've got the dollars, and you can tell all of these companies that you're happy to invest with them once they add women. And by raising our voice that way we make a difference. One of the concepts, one of the repeating concepts that comes here in the suite, you know, we have a fascination and we have an obsession, Kristen, of women in leadership in the financial services space, such as yourself, who chose early to do the right things at the right time. A lot of it goes back to education and those decisions early on. I'm always fascinated to speak to women and say, how did you know know, how did you know to go to that school? How did you know to graduate in that degree. How did you know to pursue that? You have a fascinating background, a PhD in education from UC Berkeley. You have a master's in bilingual education and research from Stanford. Again, I had to wipe the drool off my face and the envy. I was like, wow, what made Kristen hall pursue such a bold and impactful path? Because that, I feel like that beginning. And correct me if I'm wrong, Kristen, that is the very thing that propelled you to be where you are today, you know? Thank you. And again, I'm honored to be here and just really wanting to promote all the women doing all the things. And I do have a really kind of interesting path as far as asset management. I grew up in a trading firm, and so at the dinner table, we were talking puts and calls and derivatives and futures and options and commodities. And the mantra, I guess, from the backseat of the station wagon, was buy low and sell high. And I was a clerk on the floor, on the trading floor, where it was very, very male dominated. And so I always knew I wanted to make a difference. And yet I kind of had been in the belly of the beast of those systems. And I went into education because I felt like that was an institution where we really could make a difference. And I started a charter school in Oakland, and I had. Was really loving that career and also spending time on the investment committee at the trading firm and doing different items. So it wasn't until we sold that firm where I was able to bring my worlds together. And I really saw I was sitting on all of this financial acumen, all of my informal education from my family company, that I couldn't just sit on the women and the people in my community. From the charter school, I saw that they didn't have the acumen to go in and get a bank loan or to go work with the city to help buy the building for our school or those types of conversations. And I thought, you know, what? If we don't have more clear and transparent types of investment products that appeal to women in color, that are made with a gender lens and an eye for racial equity and really looking out for our environment, then we're in trouble. And I also really wanted to help grow wealth for the people in my community. And I knew that investing was a barrier, so I wanted to have investment products that were easy to access and could help align with their mission and their values and investing for the world that they wanted to see. In addition to that, you have an amazing internship program that really. The videos on YouTube again, I'll share it with everybody there. I love seeing how you're spotlighting that next gen of women. It goes back to those early decisions like, hey, how did you know to go in this direction or that direction? If I had a kristen hall when I was in graduate school, when I was in college, you, Kristen, would have absolutely affected the trajectory of my career. I would love for you to just talk about NIA's internship program because it is very impressive. I think all of us, even here, and intentionally we can take a page out of your internship program and aspire to bring more people in, create more inclusive environments within our organizations. But what really did it for me is hearing those women actually speak about what the internship program meant to them, what the community aspect of that actually of your mentorship program, but also to that peer to peer learning environment that you created at NIA. So congratulations to you. Oh, Tina, thank you so much. That change the face of finance internship program is really near and dear to my heart and it's one of the favorite things that we do at NIA and it really is training that next generation in the methods that we use at NIA. So looking at both the risks and the opportunities when it comes to the environment, we look at and have them update our charts on our US sustainable development goals, alignment and looking at our companies and where revenues are coming from and aligning to those sustainable development goals which are highly aligned with our own n six solution. So investing again, starting with products and services is so different than the rest of the way. Our economy is organized in indexes and so having them look at individual companies is. We love doing it. We of course have them look at the diversity statistics and help us update. So we actively involve them in all of our research. And then you mentioned the peer to peer learning. We take a cohort and, and pre Covid, they were in our office and we'd go out to ice cream and lunch and talk about all the different financial aspects of what we were doing in addition to the social justice aspects. And now we do it on Zoom. So we can take women literally from all over the world. We've had women from Ethiopia, from Venezuela, largely from the US, from universities, and they get to meet each other and we do pair them up for projects and then they do present. So they work on their presentation skills as well as their research skills. And whether they go into asset management or nothing not isn't necessarily what we need, but they do go back to their economics classes with a gender lens and they're able to speak up in a different way in often male dominated spaces than they were before. So we are loving that. You know, we have a pre survey and a post survey and of course we take all of their feedback and try to do new iterations of the program. Hey sweet, and I. Hi insiders, it's Tina here. I just wanted to take a moment to personally thank you for all your support. Your five star reviews and the love you've shown us on Instagram has meant the world to me and helps keep in the suite going strong. If you haven't already, please make sure you're following along on Instagram for exclusive behind the scenes content, sneak peeks, and special announcement. Your feedback and energy keeps this community thriving. Thank you again for being. Being such an amazing part of the in the sweet family. You know, a lot of us have been given opportunity, myself included. I've had a lot of great male mentors, sponsors, advisors throughout my career. But, you know, every now and then we definitely face an obstacle. A door gets shut in front of us. We're told we're not enough. We're not this, we're not that. You know, I wondered if how much rejection, because here you are. You're about to celebrate your 8th year anniversary at Nia Impact Capital in January. So happy anniversary in advance. But, you know, were there people that kind of criticize or just, you know, some obstacles and some challenges along the way? Imagine there was. Nothing is ever truly a straight line. Just want to hear your approach to that. So, Tina, just to set level, set, that happens on the daily. We get on the daily. It's, you know, it's, you're so, you know, we are doing all this awesome work, and I'm really proud of what we're doing and the team that we're building and what we have. And we now have four different separately managed account portfolios, and we have a mutual fund, and we're, you know, so we're really excited about the progress we have made. And yet the discrimination and the patriarchy is real. And so largely, men are making the decisions about investment products for financial advisors, even sometimes in a family. It's the man, oftentimes, who makes the decisions on investments and how that happens. And so we are, of course, here to change all of that. And it is an uphill walk or hike, or we try to bring in the positive metaphors, and yet it is some hard work to do. We want to change those numbers from the 0.7 to at least get to 1% and 5%, 10%. Where do we need to be? We need to be at 50% where women led asset management is 50% at least making the decisions for our economy. And we do get the economy that we invest into. And so it's really up to us to make those changes. And yet, one, the system just doesn't want to be changed. Things are the status quo, and our income and economy are very strong and set in their ways. And we are bringing some really different ideas, ones that we think are really relevant for our investors. And so we do need to collect more investors so that we can grow this even more. I imagine that newer companies are really leading the way in advancing racial equity. Would that be a fair assumption? I'm wondering, like, hey, what's the company or companies that are really doing it right that are creating that inclusion inclusive, equitable environment? Not because it's a mandate, Kristen, but because they truly see the performance, they feel, the culture within their firm, that they're making an intention, a word that we love here, intentional. Making an intentional decision to create the kind of cultures that we ourselves wish that we were a part of early on in our careers. So I guess the net message here is, are the newer companies getting it right? Who's the company right now that is on your lens? That is really intriguing. Well, so I appreciate the question, and I don't want to bring more bad news. You know, we are investing in publicly traded companies, so they are a little bit more mature in that they are no longer startup. They've received a lot of funding, often vc funding, and then they've had an IPO or a merger or an acquisition, so that they're now in a publicly traded space on the New York Stock Exchange or the Nasdaq, et cetera. The money that is flowing to women led firms, as you brought up in the previous article from crane, is so little. So we do have companies that have women in leadership, though it's so few and far between that make it to be a publicly traded company similar for people of color. So of course, we are eyeing those and we love to see ownership. So we're looking at shares for women and people of color. And it's very, very hard to find in our public publicly traded space. So we do actually have to transform the venture capital system so that more women and people of color are those companies that are getting invested in, because they do have that DNA of equity, and they do see the benefits of diverse teams, diverse hiring. And then, of course, they have the advantage because they have those eyes on products and services. So being able to develop products and services with women and people of color in mind, will then open, open up all sorts of markets for them. So that's what we're looking for. Amazing. And when you started your company again almost eight years ago, you were very intentional about the meaning of Nia. And I wanted you to perhaps just spend a little bit of time sharing the story behind the name and what the future vision is. Nia. Sure. So Nia is actually a Swahili word. It means intention and purpose. And back from my teaching days, would teach about Kwanzaa to my classes in San Francisco. And it's one of the Kwanzaa principles of intention and purpose. And so designing investment products with intention and purpose, finding those companies that are baked with intention and purpose. We're actually a B Corp, and we look for principles of B Corps in the companies that we invest in so that they are profiting from purpose and doing good and doing well by having those products and services and having their company organized with policies, practices that lead to a really beneficial company with strong human capital management practices. And then we try to do the same the way that we build our own company with those same beneficial and NIA principles. And for our future, we are looking to grow. So, as I mentioned, we are looking to change the face of finance. We are looking to have more investors into our own products and then helping others grow as well as we want to lift all boats. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm telling you, you need to follow Kristen. You need to connect with her on LinkedIn. I'll make sure that there is a link. You should also to be following her company again. You're a real standout here in the world of impact investing. It is an absolute honor. What's the best way for people to get in touch with you? Thank you, Tina. Going right to our website, neainpactcapital.com, and you can sign up for newsletters. You can write to us there, LinkedIn also, and you can follow us on Instagram as well. Amazing. Amazing. So a couple of last questions that I just want to end with, because, again, I'm, you know, fascinated about that personal side as well, too. What's on your nightstand? You know, do you have books on the nightstand? Is there anything that you're, like, reading or that has your interest right now? Yeah, absolutely. So one of our advisors, Akiah Winwood, has co authored this book, leading with Joy. And I wonder if I can get this to show up in here. Let's see if I can get that. We'll have that. Any rate, these are some tricky times. And the title is actually leading with joy practices for uncertain times and to do the hard work. It's part of what we do every day and it also needs to be joyful. So I'm really excited about this new book because it doesn't need to be gloom and doom. There are lots of parts of our systems that need to change and we can do that with others in collaboration and with joy. Well, thank you for that book recommendation. Kristen intentionally is a book club series that I moderate, and I would love to have your partner and the author of that book on our book club. Okay. I just share one other book because I'm excited about it, other colleagues of ours, and it just has to do with the gender lens and it's called the Double X edge, unlocking higher returns and lower risk. And it's all about the gender lens. And of course Nia is mentioned. We're excited about that. And then we're also learning about all of the other ways to incorporate gender lens in our investing. And so really exciting. It may be not super exciting, nightstand, but I do love getting into, particularly these women authors. Oh, that's fantastic. And our last question that we're asking here on this season, it's a question that also is near and dear to my heart, is if you could share a personal health or wellness tip that has significantly benefited you. Oh, you know, I love the question and I really love bringing it home to what are we doing to have healthy and sustainable and joyful lives? For me, it's getting outside and being in nature and making that part of what I regularly do. I'm lucky to live in California where we have redwoods. And so trying to get out to hike in the redwoods is one of my favorite things to do on the regular. And then kind of my sometimes bring joy and personal health is organizing river rafting trips. And so we actually have an impactful women's group, and we take them river rafting at least once a year. So we did the american river this July and it was fantastic. Of course, you have that. That is amazing. Kristen Hull, NiA Impact Capital an absolute honor and a pleasure. We really are supportive of your work and all of your efforts. And I want to thank you so much with showing us explaining what impact investing can be. A lot of new terms for our listening audience. And I would say also to a consciousness that's the, that's the one word I'm taking away from our discussion here is just this consciousness of, like, you know, what it means to be intentional, impactful and purposeful. So congratulations to you and happy 8th anniversary coming up. Tina, thank you so much. Thanks for having me and I'm really excited to just engage with you further and really promote your work. Thank you. You're listening to in the suite, the podcast that brings you inspiring stories of women leading the way in financial services and wealth management, along with the men who champion and empower them. Our producers are Tina Powell and Kevin Hirshhorn. Our editor at large is Kevin Hirshhorn. Our content writer is Tina Powell. This podcast is sponsored by intentionally, a growth design consultancy working with fintech and finserve companies to turn turbocharged their marketing efforts. If you want more information, please email me@tinarowrowintentionally.com and please also connect with me on LinkedIn. And thank you so much for listening. It means the world to me that you guys keep listening. Be part of this community. We've got listeners in 74 countries, 1615 cities worldwide. Please consider giving us a five star review on Apple or Spotify. It would mean the world and help us to be found by more people. Please. I would love to connect with you on LinkedIn and hope you'll follow in the sweet pod on Instagram. Thank you again for listening and subscribing.

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